50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Makes you wonder for sure. One of the best M65-69 year olds in Idaho just had a pace maker installed and he is done with competition. Lost one college teammate to cancer and several others hit with cancer bouts of various types, others with heart disease. I never used Round Up however I have removed lead based paint, not professionally but as a Saturday warrior. One would like to think a healthy lifestyle would otherwise build some defense against disease, but who knows?The diagnostic tools are better, which has shown my disease is far more complicated than originally thought. Sill there are no markers that say who will get the disease but co-morbidities seem to predict trouble ahead.

IMO, it depends what that healthy lifestyle is in terms of nutrition. Excercising and eating good isn't enough isn't enough for us aging folks. Avoiding toxics in the air, food & water are the key to keeping the immune system healthy. People forget we have an immune system with Natural killer (NK) cells that are designed to stop the initiation & promotion of cancer cells.

Look at all the chemicals in our food; pesticides in non-organic food, GMO foods, dyes, high-fructose corn syrup, growth hormones & antibiotics in animal proteins. And if you eat animals that eat non-organic feed that's just as bad, i.e. you are what they eat. GMOs have been shown to cause cancer and wreck havoc on the immune system. Same with pesticides. Non-organic meat, particularly the processed & packaged meats, are linked to a big increase in GI cancers. Our tap water is full of fluoride & heavy metals. If you live & train in a large metro-area there's air pollution to breath throughout the year. Plus, add in the exposure of high-radiation CT scans that more & more older people are getting these days (ionizing radiation breaks DNA strands) plus some of the pharmaceuticals that older people have/want to take regularly (renal/liver toxicity) and you have recipe for disaster on the immune system.

About 15 yrs ago when I was in my mid-40s, I started getting sick a lot and just not feeling very well most of the time, despite excercising regulary (40 mpw & strength training 3 x week). After about a year of this, I ended up in the ER one day with severe gastritis and was later diagnosed with some pre-cancerous GI pathologies. I was eating what I thought was healthy with a lot of fruits & vegetables but were non-organic. I was also eating a fair amount of non-organic animal proteins, eating fast food two or three times a week and drinking a lot of sports drinks loaded with dyes & high-fructose.

The doctors wanted to treat my conditions with pharmaceuticals, which of course is the medical system's MO; only treat the symptoms. And when I developed side-effects from some of the drugs they assured me that had more drugs to effectively treat those side-effects. Unfortunately, most doctors know very little about nutrition. If you ask them how much nutritional science they've had in med school they will tell you very little. However, all doctors do encourage good eating habits but I'm not sure if they really know what that means.

Anyway, not wanting to be on several meds indefinitely and still feeling lousy, I completely transitioned to all food sources organic. The types of foods and beverages never changed including the animal proteins - everything was now organic. After a few months I felt fantastic, and to my GI doctor's surprise reversed all the pre-cancerous pathologies. And no more meds. ? And other than using an albuterol inhaler for EIA (can't move yet from the metro-area) and some Tylenol during the week (mild OA in 3 joints and some chronic running-related injuries), I let food be my medicine.

KCgeezer,

Nice story. I am aware of Donnie Belcourt as a former Cowboy. Also, not surprised Coach Dick Weis was instrumental in helping Donnie.

Igy

Old Cat,

I buy organic when the choice is given and I am more conscious today of the points you made. Fortunately I married right with someone that enjoys making scratch meals and packs my lunch every day. So I think generally I rank pretty high for the factors you outlined, but still afflicted. That said, I am assuming I would be far worse off if I had other co-morbidities many at my age face.

Igy

I don't want to start a debate, but I disagree with just about everything you have said about food. My wife was a biology/biochemistry major; my son was a biochemistry major; and one of my sisters is head of intellectual property for Synthetic Genomics, a major GMO research company. There is no biochemical basis to support most of your assertions. There are numerous studies refuting most of what you have said about food products. If you want to talk about anecdotal evidence, I grew up in Los Angeles in the heavy smog era, and spent decades consuming fast food and high fructose drinks. As I got older I improved my diet to eat more fresh non-organic foods because I don't metabolize large amounts of calories as quickly anymore. Neither I nor any of my siblings have ever experienced any cancer or cardiac issues. None of us are on any prescription drugs. Beyond basic common sense healthy eating (mostly stay away from fried foods and salt) and healthy lifestyle, this has very little to do with the marketing gimmick of "organic" certification for foods and mostly has to do with picking parents with good genetic traits. You are right that "ionizing radiation breaks DNA strands" but that doesn't affect much beyond increasing your odds of skin cancers.

I basically agree with you, old guy II. I'm a Ph.D. chemist, although that does not make me an expert in biochemistry or medicine.

And then there are the folks who claim that the reason people are so fat now is the "toxins in the environment". Having grown up in the same general time and place as ogII, I'm well aware that in most respects our environment is considerably cleaner than it was 50 years ago. The fact that we are now more aware of all forms of pollution--surely a good thing--doesn't mean that it has gotten worse.

Fine...lets start a debate! ? Your ignorant and clueless - so bring it on pal! And your timing is perfect, btw. Tonight on the Nationwide Coast to Coast AM show with Goerge Noory will be "Jeffrey Smith," an expert in dangers of GMO foods. He's been on the program several times and will give you all the real scientific studies on the dangers of GMO and how MANSANTO screws up everthing by buying off scientists to do their industry-funded bias studies!

And those "numerous studies refuting" most of what I have said about food products are Monsanto-funded studies! (i.e. publication bias!). It's like Big Pharma pal, you need to follow the freaken $$$ with Monsanto and see how organic products threaten their billion dollar empire! In fact, Coast to Coast takes listener's phone calls on the second hour - so why don't you call into the program and spout off your nonsense to Mr. Smith? Lol.

Old Cat Runner wrote:

Tonight on the Nationwide Coast to Coast AM show with Goerge Noory will be "Jeffrey Smith," an expert in dangers of GMO foods ...

That brings back memories of listening to Art Bell on the long drive home from the newsroom every night! Always entertaining ... lots of fun topics like near-death experience, cosmology, remote viewing, hauntings, contact with extraterrestrials, psychic reading, metaphysics, conspiracy theories, Area 51, Ouija boards, crop circles, cryptozoology, Bigfoot, the Hollow Earth hypothesis, and science fiction literature. I guess the show has taken a more serious tone with George Noory, eh?

amkelley wrote:

And then there are the folks who claim that the reason people are so fat now is the "toxins in the environment". Having grown up in the same general time and place as ogII, I'm well aware that in most respects our environment is considerably cleaner than it was 50 years ago. The fact that we are now more aware of all forms of pollution--surely a good thing--doesn't mean that it has gotten worse.

My wife lived in Indiana as a child in the 1950s, and the City of Fort Wayne would spray frequently for mosquito control. She and the other kids would run behind the truck because it was great fun to play in the DDT fog.

She suffers with a neurological disorder, and sometimes I wonder if that's related. She takes medication daily, but there are a lot of negative side effects. Which of course the doctors want to treat with still more meds.

On a happier note, I met with my PT today, and he's optimistic that I can get past my knee issues without surgery. I got on my bike trainer last night for a bit, and the elliptical today.

Allen1959 wrote:

Old Cat Runner wrote:

Tonight on the Nationwide Coast to Coast AM show with Goerge Noory will be "Jeffrey Smith," an expert in dangers of GMO foods ...

That brings back memories of listening to Art Bell on the long drive home from the newsroom every night! Always entertaining ... lots of fun topics like near-death experience, cosmology, remote viewing, hauntings, contact with extraterrestrials, psychic reading, metaphysics, conspiracy theories, Area 51, Ouija boards, crop circles, cryptozoology, Bigfoot, the Hollow Earth hypothesis, and science fiction literature. I guess the show has taken a more serious tone with George Noory, eh?

He has a lot of mainstream guests on as regulars, e.g., Dr. Joel Wallach, Earl Mindell, PhD, Stephen F. Cohen, (professor -NYU). It's the most listen to program in it's time slot with *600* stations in the U.S, Canada & Australia. Btw, Art Bell passed away last year leaving behind a wife and two small children.

The GMO/pesticide-polluted food is all controlled by Monsanto. They're the bully on the block and want power and control to protect their empire. They fund many of their own studies and criticize non-industry-funded studies that show health risks. How fair is that? Lol. In fact, so many of the scientific journals are being polluted these days with industry-funded studies that it's hard to take them serious anymore.

Several hundred lawsuits against Monsanto (you don't see that with the organic farming industry. Lol):

Jeffrey Smith's brief introduction on the dangers of GMOs & pesticides in food:

Researcher Ty Bollinger compares one of Monsanto's GMO studies with a real study done in Europe:

From Wikipedia:

A variety of American organic food companies see Smith "as a champion for their interests",[1] and Smith's supporters describe him as "arguably the world's foremost expert on the topic of genetically modified foods".[22] In contrast, Michael Specter, writing in The New Yorker, reported that Smith was presented as a "scientist" on The Dr. Oz Show despite his lack of any scientific experience or relevant qualifications.[4] Bruce Chassy, a molecular biologist and food scientist, wrote to the show arguing that Smith's "only professional experience prior to taking up his crusade against biotechnology is as a ballroom-dance teacher, yogic flying instructor, and political candidate for the Maharishi cult’s natural-law party."[4] Jon Entine, an author and science journalist, accused Smith of being "an activist with no scientific or medical background" and said that Smith's views amount to "near-hysterical criticism".[23]

Wife packs me a sack breakfast and lunch most work days. Today I was treated with Sunday leftover French Toast with fresh blueberries. Not sure how healthy French Toast is but the Maple Syrup was Canadian and organic.

OCR, I am pretty comfortable that I am not ignorant and clueless. What part of "I don't want to start a debate" was unclear? I hope your nutritional beliefs are working well for you and make you happy, but my beliefs and practices are pretty close to the polar opposite of yours and are working great for me, and your post spurred me to make a comment about that subject.

Organic chicken is still chicken. Organic olive oil is still olive oil. Organic cheese is still cheese.

Plant-based, low-fat diets reverse cardiovascular diseases. They are 85 percent less contributory to climate change. And if you eat only plants, rather than animals that have eaten a shitload of grains, you probably won't be exposed to as much GMOs anyway.

I agree the use of Roundup is disturbing in many ways, but the way to kill Monsanto is to opt out of the economy it largely enables, which is animal agriculture.

Here's a guy whose YouTube channel I like because he's amusing and crams a lot of science into them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb1_kY7sWZk&t=124s

AK-67 wrote:

From Wikipedia:

A variety of American organic food companies see Smith "as a champion for their interests",[1] and Smith's supporters describe him as "arguably the world's foremost expert on the topic of genetically modified foods".[22] In contrast, Michael Specter, writing in The New Yorker, reported that Smith was presented as a "scientist" on The Dr. Oz Show despite his lack of any scientific experience or relevant qualifications.[4] Bruce Chassy, a molecular biologist and food scientist, wrote to the show arguing that Smith's "only professional experience prior to taking up his crusade against biotechnology is as a ballroom-dance teacher, yogic flying instructor, and political candidate for the Maharishi cult’s natural-law party."[4] Jon Entine, an author and science journalist, accused Smith of being "an activist with no scientific or medical background" and said that Smith's views amount to "near-hysterical criticism".[23]

Cheesy link you posted AK-67. So, Jeffrey Smith, who has a passion for research in this area and presents the evidence for the dangers of GMO/pesticide grown produce (and discloses the opposing industry-funded studies and scientists who have been bought off) isn't qualified to do research and present his case because he has "no scientific or medical background?"

Do you know how ridiculous that is? It analogous to saying that a running coach shouldn't be researching the science behind endurance training and providing training advice unless they have a science background in excercise philosophy or sports medicine. ?

Lebower wrote:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/12/think-organic-food-is-better-for-you-animals-and-the-planet-thin/

That article references the Stanford study which has major flaws:

OTOH, here's a couple of studies that refute the Stanford study:

Cheesy, huh? The post presented opinions both pro and con. Many people are actually interested in hearing different sides of an issue. It helps one to make an informed decision. But you’re certainly not the only “my way or the highway” poster here.

Also, no one said he shouldn’t be researching the topic. However, I do believe there is value in knowing someone’s background and experience. Using your analogy, I believe the scientists who study endurance training topics have a better understanding than the coach whose research into that area is necessarily limited.

AK-67 wrote:

Also, no one said he shouldn’t be researching the topic. However, I do believe there is value in knowing someone’s background and experience. Using your analogy, I believe the scientists who study endurance training topics have a better understanding than the coach whose research into that area is necessarily limited.

Do you read/post on any of the topics on the mainframe? Let me give you name of a legendary coach who posts regularly over there: Renato Canova (that's what it says on his registered user name; "legendary").

Canova speaks often about the physiology involved with endurance training; speed training, threshold training, living & training at altitude, etc. He also has discussed hematological science with endurance performance (he posts the blood values of some of his athletes that he's coaching or has coached), as well as discussing with other posters past & present doping issues. He doesn't have a science background in any these fields as far as I know. He very well researched and has coached many top elites. In fact, he has alluded to times (if I understand him correctly) that scientists who study endurance training topics don't know as much about training a runner as he, and other coaches who are out on the field actually working with the athletes.

So, how can Canova's knowledge & expertise be "necessarily limited?" You should go and read some of his posts (he been active on a few hot topic threads lately) and tell him that that "scientists who study endurance training topics" have a better understanding of endurance training that he does. ?