Is the consensus that Bekele was doped to the gills?
Is the consensus that Bekele was doped to the gills?
BritFormerMidDistanceRunner wrote:
Weight wrote:I respect anyone who pushes himself to the limit and sets new goals for himself. That's not Farah. He's not moving forward. Same thing over and over. I have more respect for a runner that gets last, yet has a new pb, than a runner that gets first and doesn't even try to get a pb.
Nah, I don't like him either and many here don't. My reason for disliking him as an athlete is I think he's actually been harmful to British athletics. Not only did he almost certainly intervene so as to influence non-selection of Vernon for the past World Championships, he puts nothing back into British sport. I've been at a few training camps where the British team athletes would be training, and you'd never see Mo anywhere. The other team athletes would mix with us slightly lesser mortal beings, be friendly, etc.. Never seen Mo. Never seen him visit a local school or his local track or running club. Never seen him put his name behind keeping a track open. He's only interested in furthering his own career and his own family.
He is so feted by the media here he has probably worked out that he can be as selfish as he likes and not bother appearing in his own country when it doesn't suit him because all he basically has to do is be the way he is and he is politically correct enough for those in charge of the left wing media in the UK to worship him.
What makes it worse is the sickening way he is shoved down our throats by the politically correct media at all turns. Every time he is on tv, you have to listen to the British commentator repeatedly saying 3 or 4 times that he's the greatest British sportsman of all time. The whole race commentary is basically about how wonderful he is. The rest of the field is forgotten.
I'm not saying he's not a good runner, with a sprint finish. I just find him particularly uninspiring. I find Usain Bolt inspiring, for example. Not Mo. I can't imagine young UK runners thinking "well, this is Mo's background and where he came from and I will try to emulate it". He is so far removed now from British athletics as not to be really part of it, other than in team name only.
LOL someone is LITERALLY jealous here .. Is that you Mr.Vernon ?
You sound like a lil bitch who is on her monthly period .. "oh Mo doesnt chill with us" " Oh Mo doesn't come out of his room" .. Man the F up.. Mo doesn't owe you nothing
"If he wants to be considered the GOAT by most running fans,"
What is this GOAT contest? Is it something all runners care about? Thrive for? Dream about? Drool over?
Are there official GOAT calculations you speak of? Or is it just some lame thing no-talent runners think about (you have to think about something once you realize you'll never win anything).
Are we have a GOAT conversation right now? Want my opinion on GOAT? They are tasty. And GOAT cheese is pretty good too.
Jordy wrote:
If Mo doubles again I would consider him the GOAT regardless of his times.
If he goes in to have a successful Marathon then it is beyond doubt.
He will never be better than bekele lol
The truth is that uber elite athletes with crossover appeal don't make their coin pleasing hard core fans like us. They have built brands that appeal to those who have a passing interest in athletics by itself, but are more taken with the story and theatrics. For these people time doesn't matter just the fact that their hero gets from point A to point B in front and/or with a certain style, throe i a rich dose of patriotism and its clear why Mo doesn't focus on world records. This is the mass market and they don't even know the significance of a particular time.
I'd personally like to see Mo challenge the world record or at least run some sick times, but I also respect the fact that he sticks to a business model that works for him and fills his bank account. This is the same for Bolt. If he ran 9.69 in 08 with his veins popping out his neck he wouldn't have become the highest paid athlete in the world today. Instead he won in a fashion that captured the imagination of everyone. Bolt is to the global sports entertainment mass market what Mo is to the British.
Elite sport is not sport, its a segment of the entertainment business.
For six years he has beaten all comers at all the championships. He has had waves of Ethiopians and Kenyans try to take him down to no avail. Contrary to your point, he was sub 13 before joining the nop. Salazar is the best at tactics and race simulation. Since it seems that everyone in the sport is under suspicion for biological transport I believe he beat the best over and over with a equal playing field.
girl watcher wrote:
kh wrote:Quadruple Olympic Gold Medalist
Quadruple World Championship Gold Medalist
Let that sink in.
This +++++
What's supposed to sink in here? What point are you poorly attempting to make? OP said he/she doesn't like Mo because he races like a p*ssy. The only thing his medal count proves is that he has the ability to jog 11.5/24 laps and then blast the last 400.
Complete dominance is when you can win by either sitting in the pack and kicking for the win OR by pushing from the front and hammering your competitors into submission.
Lasse Viren is an example of this. He is a true quadruple gold medalist, proving he can win in the most heroic way (from the front) and also by sitting in the pack and playing it smart.
Mo, apparently, can only feed off of the other runners in the race and not win from the front.
Let that sink in.
Um, do you even follow this sport? http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/09/lrc-debate-berlin-greatest-time-kenenisa-bekele-haile-gebrselassie-mo-farah/Yes, believe it or not, this is something that people discuss. And I've represented my country at the world championships level (although I'm still a slouch compared to Farah!), so I don't think I'm totally devoid of talent.
louiedepalma wrote:
"If he wants to be considered the GOAT by most running fans,"
What is this GOAT contest? Is it something all runners care about? Thrive for? Dream about? Drool over?
Are there official GOAT calculations you speak of? Or is it just some lame thing no-talent runners think about (you have to think about something once you realize you'll never win anything).
Are we have a GOAT conversation right now? Want my opinion on GOAT? They are tasty. And GOAT cheese is pretty good too.
My point was really just that there are runners who have done more than one thing exceptionally well in the sport. Farah only does one thing exceptionally well (i.e. winning championship 5's and 10's). But he doesn't do a whole lot else. People do sometimes note that Geb never won a World XC. But they also note that he set numerous world records on the road. I wasn't arguing that everyone needs to tick off some predetermined checklist of accomplishments, just that others who are commonly discussed as the greatest have done pretty much the same things Farah has, along with many other things he hasn't.
Woody KinPAID wrote:
anonymous tool wrote:If he wants to be considered the GOAT by most running fans
Sorry, but nobody wants that. Have you ever heard or read interviews with US runners? They hate LR posters. They have individual goals: PRs, time barriers, making teams, winning medals, whatever. Not a single professional runner is clamoring to be the blue collar idol of hardcore running fans. Even Noah Droddy has loftier goals than that!
Look at Paul Chelimo, seems to be at close as we've got to your perfect vision right now--he went out to give fans what they wanted in the US 5k, but do you think that's his season's goal? You don't think he's more worried about medalling in London than he is about appeasing fans who complain about sit-and-kick races? The dude sits and kicks all the time, he sat and kicked in NY instead of going over to London to duke it out with the Ethiopians.
You wanna know some great 5000 runners who don't have impressive marathon times? Daniel Komen, Gebremeskel, Sileshi Sihine, Brahim Lahlafi, Mohammed Mourhit, Salah Hissou, John Ngugi. Just because Geb, Bekele, Tergat and Kipchoge do something doesn't mean it's a precursor to being great. Why doesn't Geb get sh*t for sucking at XC? I thought that was the ultimate benchmark of a runner's balls and heart? He couldn't touch a guy he routinely outkicked on the track.
Weight wrote:
Take Kipchoge for instance. Man could have gone to win another London marathon, but he's been there already. He wanted to achieve something new.
In all fairness, he was mercilessly flogged on here, at the time, for that decision.
famous american clock cleaner wrote:Lasse Viren is an example of this. He is a true quadruple gold medalist, proving he can win in the most heroic way (from the front) and also by sitting in the pack and playing it smart
no
he won golds in '76 in boycott games
Yifter wouda crushed him if he was there especially on basis off that incredible 13'13.8 with brutal last lap in unpaced race in '77 world cup when wr at time was 13'12.8
Yifter had to sit on sidelines watching viren win rightfully was Yifter's 5k gold & when Yifter got 1st possible chance for revenge in '77, viren off course not in race
Not criticising him at all! Merely pointing out that he has a massive advantage over his Kenyan/Ethiopian opponents because he does not have to run trials or prove his fitness by running several hard races prior to the championships. He also has a governing body who will arrange "races" like Sunday's effort that gives him exactly what he wants at this stage of his preparation ( and puts a few quid in his bank account!).
smh, here we go... wrote:
Does the name Isaiah Kipkoech Koech ring a bell? What about John Kipkoech?
No?
Exactly. No one really cares about a fast time. The guys i listed ran 12:48 and 12:49, which is wayyy faster than Farah's pr, but no one remembers their name except seeing them on the all time list.
I remember their names, because that was the greatest 5000 meters ever run. Everyone who knows what they're talking about has that race permanently etched in their memory and recognizes by name the six individuals who broke 12:50. I also remember that Mo Farah was not there.
If your goal as an athlete is to impress ignorant fans of other sports, that's all well and good, but still, there it is. I mean, I always say Farah is pretty good, but to be a track legend he has to impress track fans, and we respect speed because that is what track is about.
Bad Wigins wrote:I remember their names, because that was the greatest 5000 meters ever run. Everyone who knows what they're talking about has that race permanently etched in their memory and recognizes by name the six individuals who broke 12:50. I also remember that Mo Farah was not there.
If your goal as an athlete is to impress ignorant fans of other sports, that's all well and good, but still, there it is. I mean, I always say Farah is pretty good, but to be a track legend he has to impress track fans, and we respect speed because that is what track is about.
'Pretty good'.
4x Olympic Champion
5x World Champion
5x European Champion
It's obvious you're just not a very good judge.
Every single athlete in the world would trade a 12.40 for an Olympic medal. Let alone gold.
Times are a nice bonus but almost irrelevant in comparison to winning.
Knower of Bad Judges wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:I remember their names, because that was the greatest 5000 meters ever run. Everyone who knows what they're talking about has that race permanently etched in their memory and recognizes by name the six individuals who broke 12:50. I also remember that Mo Farah was not there.If your goal as an athlete is to impress ignorant fans of other sports, that's all well and good, but still, there it is. I mean, I always say Farah is pretty good, but to be a track legend he has to impress track fans, and we respect speed because that is what track is about.
'Pretty good'.
4x Olympic Champion
5x World Champion
5x European Champion
It's obvious you're just not a very good judge.
Every single athlete in the world would trade a 12.40 for an Olympic medal. Let alone gold.
Times are a nice bonus but almost irrelevant in comparison to winning.
God, youre such a dumba$s. What part of this don't you understand? It doesn't matter how many medals he has. That's half of it. The other half is proving yourself from the front.
Oh, and people forget medal winners as well as world record holders. Who won bronze in the steeplechase at the Helsinki Olympics? do you know without looking it up? What was his time?
famous American clock cleaner wrote:
God, youre such a dumba$s. What part of this don't you understand? It doesn't matter how many medals he has. That's half of it. The other half is proving yourself from the front.
That's the thing. It's not half of it. It's more like 95% of it.
famous American clock cleaner wrote:
Knower of Bad Judges wrote:'Pretty good'.
4x Olympic Champion
5x World Champion
5x European Champion
It's obvious you're just not a very good judge.
Every single athlete in the world would trade a 12.40 for an Olympic medal. Let alone gold.
Times are a nice bonus but almost irrelevant in comparison to winning.
God, youre such a dumba$s. What part of this don't you understand? It doesn't matter how many medals he has. That's half of it. The other half is proving yourself from the front.
Oh, and people forget medal winners as well as world record holders. Who won bronze in the steeplechase at the Helsinki Olympics? do you know without looking it up? What was his time?
Come on. Farah doesn't have Bronze. He has a ton of Gold.
Everyone will be forgotten eventually, but when you look up who won Gold in the 5k/10k in 2012 and 2016 Farah's name will be there.
Professional athletes care more about medals than times. They've said it over and over, such as Kiprop saying he wishes to be like Farah.
Bekele is different in that he has stated that he wouldn't be happy running 'weak' times despite success. I think that's makes him unique. Nobody else cares.
Knower of Bad Judges wrote:
famous American clock cleaner wrote:God, youre such a dumba$s. What part of this don't you understand? It doesn't matter how many medals he has. That's half of it. The other half is proving yourself from the front.
That's the thing. It's not half of it. It's more like 95% of it.
Ok, who are you more impressed with at 800m, Bucher or Coe? One of them has a WC gold, the other one does not.
Said-Guerni or Coe?...
It's not 95%
It's 50% at best (the guy was very generous with 50%)
Xdddfff wrote:
Knower of Bad Judges wrote:That's the thing. It's not half of it. It's more like 95% of it.
Ok, who are you more impressed with at 800m, Bucher or Coe? One of them has a WC gold, the other one does not.
Said-Guerni or Coe?...
It's not 95%
It's 50% at best (the guy was very generous with 50%)
Coe has two Olympic silvers. Why are you focusing just on the World Champs?
Every athlete talks about championships. How often do they talk about paced meets where they can go for fast times behind a rabbit?
95% is accurate.
F-U-C-K MO FARAH wrote:
Biased? Nobody cares about indoor WRs, nobody cares about the 2 mile. His 1500m PB is quite good, as I said. He just set it in a race with several good athletes, a type of race he tries to avoid. His half marathon PB isn't as impressive, but it was the same situation as the 1500m. Read my original post. I say since he be came a star in 2012 he started dodging competition. His PBs show that. And just focusing on championships isn't good. That is everything wrong with the sport. Imagine if NBA superstars decided to not show up during regular season. Nobody would watch it. Same with track, an athlete with the media hype of mo farah shouldn't be doing that. I am pissed at bolt for pulling that later in his career as well.
Dodging what competition. Nobody can beat him. Not wanting to kill yourself every race makes sense.