Top 5 MBA, Can't Get A Job

Just about all marketing at this point, since that's what I did over the summer. Also, some for-profit companies where knowing anything about the government can be useful

MBA Fail wrote:

Then how did I get a summer internship and why am I getting interviews? Only a handful of responses (from people who are familiar with the MBA world) seem to understand the nuances of the situation.

There are 2 + 2 programs where undergrads get two years of work experience before they go to business school (i.e Harvard, Stanford, etc). There are world class hockey players, NFL players, military professionals, etc who were at my school that have 0 years of relevant working experience. I have 3 years of consulting experience, just in a niche field and for a company that isn't well known. Teach for America is competitive.

I feel like I'm talking to the crowd who probably thought their nephew was becoming a bank teller when he started his investment banking analyst position at BAML. SMH

You have an excuse for every piece of advice that has been given to you. Rather than trying to defend your arrogance you should accept it and try to improve it. It is not attractive.

Mock interviews can be helpful practice but are not the real thing. Think of all the workout heroes from the running teams you have been a part of. Don't throw out the idea that you are interviewing poorly.

It's cool that you did Teach for America. If you value the time you spent doing that you don't want to work for someone who looks down on it. Do you still have any interest in education and helping people?

What are you interested in? Don't just say marketing.

MBA Fail wrote:

Just about all marketing at this point, since that's what I did over the summer. Also, some for-profit companies where knowing anything about the government can be useful

"Marketing". That can be 100 things. I assume it's not CPG brand management, since you said you didn't like that.

Given your consulting background, if you have an ounce of quant in you, look at analytics/strategy/BI jobs. They are everywhere. Hopefully at your internship you analyzed some sort of data. Play that up.

Sesamoiditis wrote:

You have an excuse for every piece of advice that has been given to you. Rather than trying to defend your arrogance you should accept it and try to improve it. It is not attractive.

Mock interviews can be helpful practice but are not the real thing. Think of all the workout heroes from the running teams you have been a part of. Don't throw out the idea that you are interviewing poorly.

It's cool that you did Teach for America. If you value the time you spent doing that you don't want to work for someone who looks down on it. Do you still have any interest in education and helping people?

What are you interested in? Don't just say marketing.

The great majority of advice provided to the OP has been extremely misinformed. Case in point: Teach for America. This experience is very highly regarded by the employers who hire the majority of MBAs from top schools as it is known to be quite selective. For example, something like 10% of the incoming classes at McKinsey, BCG, and Bain are from TFA. Alumni of that program are greatly over-represented at such employers relative to their absolute numbers in top tier MBA programs. Yet in this thread a large number have pointed to that experience as a red flag.

Similarly, many have pointed to the English BA as an issue. Though I have an Engineering degree myself, I can tell you it has had exactly zero relevance to my post-MBA career and that undergraduate major is essentially irrelevant in the post-MBA hiring process at the types of places that hire the majority of Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, etc. grads. I was the only engineering undergrad in my starting class of 25 new post-MBA associates at my firm. Most years there are 0. Economics (#1 by far), Poly Sci, History, and English are the most common UG majors at major consulting firms and banks. UG quality and UG GPA are considered (and major is used to adjust GPA for difficulty somewhat), but your far better off with a BA from Yale with a 3.7 than you are with a B. Eng. from Flagship State with a 3.2 (Berkeley, UVA, Michigan, UCLA, and a couple others excepted). Historically, technical degrees have even been looked down on by white shoe employers as they were seen as vocational in nature. This has obviously changed as technology has grown in importance to business, but nonetheless a STEM degree confers exactly zero advantage to someone trying to get a job a BCG.

Finally, many have pointed to the OPs lack of experience despite the fact that the original post cites 5 years of pre-MBA work experience. This is on the high end of year of experience at top MBA programs. 2-3 years of high quality work experience is the norm and ideal. The companies that hire out of these schools aren't looking for specialized skills or expertise. They are looking for young people with high IQs and few outside commitments who are willing to grind out mindless work for 70+ hours per week for ~$30/hr (this gets you ~120K/yr).

The OP is correct to ignore the great majority of the advice provided so far because it is nonsense for someone in his position. There is clearly a lot of anger on this board toward MBA types, and I'm not trying to defend the idiocy that is the business school --> finance, consulting, PE pipeline, but it is what it is. There is a world of difference between MBA recruiting and hiring at a place like Kellogg (#5 program), and even the #15-20 programs (places like Carnegie Mellon, UT Austin, & UNC). General career advice like, "get a STEM degree", and "employers hire specific skills", though not incorrect for the majority of people, are largely irrelevant to the OP's situation.

MBA All-Star wrote:

MBA Fail wrote:

Just about all marketing at this point, since that's what I did over the summer. Also, some for-profit companies where knowing anything about the government can be useful

"Marketing". That can be 100 things. I assume it's not CPG brand management, since you said you didn't like that.

Given your consulting background, if you have an ounce of quant in you, look at analytics/strategy/BI jobs. They are everywhere. Hopefully at your internship you analyzed some sort of data. Play that up.

What the recent grad means by consulting is he agreed to work as a non-employee. He was not a high-dollar consultant. Just a worker-bee paid as a consultant to allow the company to not pay for healthcare, vacation, etc. He was just a lowly-paid drone.

What the recent grad means by consulting is he agreed to work as a non-employee. He was not a high-dollar consultant. Just a worker-bee paid as a consultant to allow the company to not pay for healthcare, vacation, etc. He was just a lowly-paid drone.

Pretty sure if that was the case OP wouldn't be at a top 5 MBA. It also contradicts what he himself has said. He was pretty specific that he worked for a consulting firm, just not one of the big name ones.

Getting Old wrote:

What the recent grad means by consulting is he agreed to work as a non-employee. He was not a high-dollar consultant. Just a worker-bee paid as a consultant to allow the company to not pay for healthcare, vacation, etc. He was just a lowly-paid drone.

Pretty sure if that was the case OP wouldn't be at a top 5 MBA. It also contradicts what he himself has said. He was pretty specific that he worked for a consulting firm, just not one of the big name ones.

His consulting occurred BEFORE his top 5 MBA. No afterwards. He has been looking for a job for a year since finishing.

Exactly. Quality of pre-MBA work experience is one of the most important determining factor in MBA admissions. No top-5 MBA is taking someone who spent three years as a low paid 1099 contractor. Also, placement for alumni of TFA is pretty robust. Doubt the OP wouldn't have decent options coming off his 2 year stint.

Also, the OP hasn't been looking for a job for a year since finishing his MBA. He has been looking for a job for the entirety of his 2nd year in the program (2nd year OCR starts in January). He is graduating in this month.

Listen, to anyone who reads the thread this far, what has happened to the OP is that he interviewed too narrowly during OCR (on campus recruiting). He and got three or four 2nd round consulting interviews. Odds of a hire, all else equal, after a 2nd round interview are ~1/4. The odds broke against the OP, and now he needs to cast a wider net. Same thing happens to like 25% of the class every year, and by 3 months post-graduation all but 2-3% will have found something decent. He'll be fine as long as he can figure out what he really wants to do now that the big firm consulting door is closed, and figure out how to sell himself to employers in the field.

Getting Old wrote:

Exactly. Quality of pre-MBA work experience is one of the most important determining factor in MBA admissions. No top-5 MBA is taking someone who spent three years as a low paid 1099 contractor. Also, placement for alumni of TFA is pretty robust. Doubt the OP wouldn't have decent options coming off his 2 year stint.

Wow, another person on this board who gets it. THANK YOU. To the people posting completely ignorant comments: it's fine if this isn't a world that you're not familiar with, but acknowledging this and making an effort to understand the situation would give you a lot more credibility. This isn't about me being pompous or not being willing to take feedback. The issue is that your fundamental misunderstanding = a misdiagnosis of the problem = a solution that makes little to no sense

MBA Fail wrote:

Then how did I get a summer internship and why am I getting interviews? Only a handful of responses (from people who are familiar with the MBA world) seem to understand the nuances of the situation.

There are 2 + 2 programs where undergrads get two years of work experience before they go to business school (i.e Harvard, Stanford, etc). There are world class hockey players, NFL players, military professionals, etc who were at my school that have 0 years of relevant working experience. I have 3 years of consulting experience, just in a niche field and for a company that isn't well known. Teach for America is competitive.

I feel like I'm talking to the crowd who probably thought their nephew was becoming a bank teller when he started his investment banking analyst position at BAML. SMH

"Only a handful of responses (from people who are familiar with the MBA world) seem to understand the nuances of the situation. "

LOL welcome to letsrun.

I revisited your original post and essentially you asked of easy to get MBA jobs with solid career paths. This thread has gone on tangents since then but that was the original ask. IMO that original ask doesn't exist.

There are easy to get jobs with decent career paths (i.e. every letsrunner who started there career working the line in a shoelace making factory and now has a solid job as a middle manager at a shoelace making factory) but not easy to get MBA jobs. MBA jobs pay well and are becoming fewer and farther between, while the supply of MBAs increases. It's competitive times for an MBA.

As the old guy with consulting experience mentioned you will need to work hard to prove that you want any job and know the industry in order to cover up your "damaged goods" problems. This means networking hard while also conducting background research on your own. If you could develop some kind of passion it wouldn't kill you either and would make your personal sales pitch a heck of a lot better. Good luck because with your attitude ("easy to get job") and lack of passion ("zero interests") you're going to need it.

Yet the OP-troll claims to have several years of MBA consulting when he did not have a degree. He has been looking for a $100k a year MBA job while not having an MBA degree.

Great advice as always, however, what's being missed is that the OP is no longer applying to and interviewing to jobs in consulting and finance, where his pedigree is highly valued. The OP missed the boat (sounds like he struck out huge in 2nd year OCR due to what I'd guess was overconfidence and lack of hustle at the OCR networking events).

Outside of consulting, the OP's lack of specific experience, expertise, and/or passion is likely holding the OP back. My career services taught us to view new jobs through the two-by-two (classic mba) of new function/new industry. Based on the limited information the OP has provided, it sounds like the OP is attempting to make the jump to new function and new industry. The English, TFA, noname/nondescript consulting experience is not a red flag like others have said, but it will certainly mean his resume will go to the bottom of the pile without some kind of prior network connection.

The classmates I knew who made the duel career switch hustled like heck to land their first post-MBA positions. Going to coffee with prospective employers for informational interviews was basically their full-time job. Many had to first take unpaid/hourly paid internships before landing their first full-time positions. And everyone was incredibly focused in terms of what role they wanted and passionate about the industries. And if they were simply feigning passion they were at least knowledgeable and opinionated about their target industries.

MBA Fail wrote:

Getting Old wrote:

Exactly. Quality of pre-MBA work experience is one of the most important determining factor in MBA admissions. No top-5 MBA is taking someone who spent three years as a low paid 1099 contractor. Also, placement for alumni of TFA is pretty robust. Doubt the OP wouldn't have decent options coming off his 2 year stint.

Wow, another person on this board who gets it. THANK YOU. To the people posting completely ignorant comments: it's fine if this isn't a world that you're not familiar with, but acknowledging this and making an effort to understand the situation would give you a lot more credibility. This isn't about me being pompous or not being willing to take feedback. The issue is that your fundamental misunderstanding = a misdiagnosis of the problem = a solution that makes little to no sense

Some dude jacked my handle (obvious from the poor grammar / spelling in his post).

I stand by my original advice - BI/Strategy/Analytics. Companies are desperate to build out their analytics teams, and are finding they have all the stat scientists / number crunchers they need, but they don't have people who can translate the data into meaningful business strategies. That could be you.

I am a lobbyist/gov. consultant. Yes, I am sure I will get an onslaught of people calling me a 'scumbag' and 'bottom dweller' on this thread, but here's my advice to the OP.

I have somewhat similar credentials. Undergrad I was double major in History and English and then went on to get a M.S. graduate degree. I worked in various roles while pursuing my graduate degree ranging from Gubernatorial/House/Senate campaigns to legislative aide/associate positions at lobbying firms and with legislators.

You need to learn your craft inside and out. Clearly there is a reason you're being passed over and if you say it's not how you interview, maybe you lack the substantive knowledge they are looking for in a consulting candidate. Knowledge is built through grinding it out on the frontlines.

You may have to take a job making substantially less than what you want, but while you're learning, you're also making relationships that will pay off in dividends. If you feel you've nothing left to learn and are the smartest man in the room, you're in the wrong room. I ground it out at $35k a year at a firm and bartended on the weekends while paying off a $75k loan and $900 a month rent. I now make around $110k annually and toss in benefits and a company car on top of it. It sucked at first, but you get out what you put into it.

Gist of the story; suck it the "F" up and take whatever entry level role you can get at this point regardless of pay. Build your name/brand and use the resources at your disposal to move onto something better when the opportunity arises.

MBA MVP and Lobby4Life: helpful advice. Lobby4Life: I do think how I'm interviewing does have something to do with it. I think it's that plus a combination of work experience. MBA jobs are competitive and part of what I'm trying to figure out is how I can present myself as a lower risk hire compared to other candidates who have more relevant work experience. Because I'm getting first and final round interviews, I'm really looking for help on how to make sure employers don't have an excuse to pass over me.

OP.....ignore all the dicks and apologies if this has already been covered but have you looked at some of the smaller consultancies that specialize in government work? I would get a list by revenues and then cross reference that against the alumni database and work the shit out of networking. Be persistent.....but not annoying. There are also a slew of Indian BPO firms like Wipro and Infosys that are trying to move up the food chain here in the US. Their standards will be lower and they will value the brand name of your MBA. I know quite a few partners that were up or outed from top consultancies and landed quite nicely at these places.

Best of luck and stay positive.

Always happy to provide advice. The poster below me also hit it on the head. Be persistent, but not annoying. Be firm in your interviews. One of my strong suits has always been the way I interview. The key is to control the interview without the person interviewing you knowing it.

I often times ask them a myriad of questions to make them reflect upon themselves as leadership/managers (i.e. what do you do to stay connected to your employees and ensure there isn't a level of complacency within your team? Do you/and how do you, push members of your team to matriculate into higher roles of responsibility? What values do you find to be the most functional for your employees and what is your approach to utilizing and bringing them out of them?)

You'd be surprised at how these questions make the interviewer reflect upon their own leadership and truly question themselves. It switches roles of dominance in the conversation without becoming off-putting for them.

Also, don't attribute your lack of success to any sort of personal flaw. Everything comes in good time. If you're making it past the first round interview, you're doing something right. You just may not be the right fit for that employer. Keep your nose to the grindstone and best of luck.

OP I am in a similar situation. What happened to you? Except I got a semi crappy job and then got fired after 6 months.

What do I do now?

Thanks