WOW This board lets people do that??? I never wrote that.
WOW This board lets people do that??? I never wrote that.
I know the irony. I never said I have proof for a court. I have logic and I would hope others do as well. And you cannot be arrested for taking PEDs. You know that right?
I post anonymously because of who I am and know. You can either believe that or not. Either way it doesn't bother me. What I am trying to do is educate and have people look at some of the facts of an athlete's progression and realize that its not possible without help.
I cannot be 100% sure, but you don't need to be in order to reform the system. Stop telling kids and young people that if you train hard and believe in yourself you can become an Olympian. You cannot. You need PEDs in the US and most countries.
Here here here, using anecdotal evidence Jones, Symmonds and Solomon to make your point is ok. To state people believing it normal that Brazier running 20 to 30 miles a week are ignorant is too much! Brazier, as you may know from indoor through NCAA outdoor had 4 x 400 metre obligations. A 400/800 person running 20 to 30 miles a week IS normal. There are numerous 800m runners that have XC obligations. There are numerous 800m runners that race 1500m also. Those runners will log more miles.
Contradiction wrote:
It has been said that Brazier only runs 20-30MPW with one aerobic run of 30 min per week. He didn't do cross country either. Does anyone know if he had a higher mileage base, because this mileage seems pretty low, and it's working very well. This type of training contradicts much of the 800 training mentioned on this site, especially from the "Sub 1:50 800m Training" thread. How does Brazier run so fast on this training? Is this type of training the best for 800m? Does anyone have any more specific info on it?
Although I think I read somewhere he got up to 40mpw during XC, but it is not uncommon for a true 400/800 athlete to run around 30mpw. At the next level, he will probably become an 800m specialist and bump up to 40-50mpw, but there is no need to go beyond that. Albeit, I am not a high mileage proponent, but HM has worked for many successful athletes, but it is not for everyone. In my opinion, some of the most talented H.S. 800m runners had their careers ruined by going to NCAA teams chasing XC, Indoor and Outdoor championships where they had to nearly double their H.S. mileage, run XC and the mile. Often, these 800m stars were good H.S. XC runners and milers, some coaches assume they are middle distance athletes when in actually they are long sprinters and HA zaps their speed.
ironside wrote:
Here here here, using anecdotal evidence Jones, Symmonds and Solomon to make your point is ok. To state people believing it normal that Brazier running 20 to 30 miles a week are ignorant is too much! Brazier, as you may know from indoor through NCAA outdoor had 4 x 400 metre obligations. A 400/800 person running 20 to 30 miles a week IS normal. There are numerous 800m runners that have XC obligations. There are numerous 800m runners that race 1500m also. Those runners will log more miles.
A **1:43** 800m guy off 20-30 miles per week is not normal. It's never happened.
Far less successful 800m guys, who are speed-side, yea some out there. But not 1:43 ones. New ground for 1:43 training with Brazier.
Here here here wrote:
ironside wrote:Here here here, using anecdotal evidence Jones, Symmonds and Solomon to make your point is ok. To state people believing it normal that Brazier running 20 to 30 miles a week are ignorant is too much! Brazier, as you may know from indoor through NCAA outdoor had 4 x 400 metre obligations. A 400/800 person running 20 to 30 miles a week IS normal. There are numerous 800m runners that have XC obligations. There are numerous 800m runners that race 1500m also. Those runners will log more miles.
A **1:43** 800m guy off 20-30 miles per week is not normal. It's never happened.
Far less successful 800m guys, who are speed-side, yea some out there. But not 1:43 ones. New ground for 1:43 training with Brazier.
El Caballo.
Here here here wrote:
A **1:43** 800m guy off 20-30 miles per week is not normal. It's never happened.
It has. Juantorena and Everett come to mind. But it's uncommon, to say the least.
Alberto Juantorena--1:43.50
lease wrote:
Alberto Juantorena--1:43.50
http://beaconhillstriders.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Alberto-Juantorena-Training-for-400m-800m.pdf
1972 - 44 years ago, is your example. So like I said, 20-30 mpw for a 1:43 800m runner is not normal. You showed it was done- but 44 years ago, proving it's not the norm- hence why everyone was surprised about Brazier.
Yup Brazier is definetly on somthing!
Here here here wrote:
ironside wrote:Here here here, using anecdotal evidence Jones, Symmonds and Solomon to make your point is ok. To state people believing it normal that Brazier running 20 to 30 miles a week are ignorant is too much! Brazier, as you may know from indoor through NCAA outdoor had 4 x 400 metre obligations. A 400/800 person running 20 to 30 miles a week IS normal. There are numerous 800m runners that have XC obligations. There are numerous 800m runners that race 1500m also. Those runners will log more miles.
A **1:43** 800m guy off 20-30 miles per week is not normal. It's never happened.
Far less successful 800m guys, who are speed-side, yea some out there. But not 1:43 ones. New ground for 1:43 training with Brazier.
I cannot believe some people are sitting here and coming out with statements like this. You don't even know the names of everyone that has ever run 1:43, let alone their training. You cannot say it has never happened! Athletes are classically cagey about training details and straight up lie, like the Coe's were known to do.
That said, Osagie, Rudisha, Juantorena apparently did very low mileage. That is three people. I'm sure there are many more runners that also ran very low miles. You can't say it never happened if we know 3 people ran very low miles.
I also am really, really questioning why some people like yourself are acting like mileage is important for the 800m. If you are speed based, it is not.
And low mileage doesn't mean he is undertrained or not working hard and is lazy! As if that's what he is missing and if he upped it to 50 he would run 1:39. This seems to be the assumption here.
He is likely doing very hard workouts 4 even 5 times a week, doing the special endurance he needs to hang on after the burn sets in, all the speed work, the speed endurance, lactic tolerance sessions and true endurance sessions (3k/5k pace work). He will be doing gym work for strength and power, drills and working on mobility. The mileage he does is likely in warm ups/downs and a couple recovery runs a week.
A programme like this is much, much tougher training than the jogging about you seem to think is highly important. He can increase the distance he does outside of those sessions and it will have very little effect, if not make him tired.
Specificity is key.
You imbeciles. Fools really.
Rudisha ushered in a new paradigm of 800m training. The guy ran 35mpw in base and 25mpw in training. Google it if you don't believe me and hear it from Colm himself.
The days of Symmonds are over.
Sprint studs with raw 400m speed are going to dominate the 800m. The rash of incredible new times from younger runners is occuring because of the Rudisha inspired 800m specific training.
Other than miles wrote:
What specific workouts has he done?
Still waiting for an answer to this question.
I don't know about him, but let me tell you some workouts that I did.
1:50 800m runner as a 17 year old, trained exclusively with a USATF sprint coach who was also coaching exclusively 100m, 200m, 400m and 800m runners only (no hurdles). Coach was black, most of the 20 or so odd kids he coached were black. Almost all the kids who graduated went on to win state championships and ran D1.
Sample workouts:
1km at ridiculously fast pace (probably around 3km pace).
Full recovery of 10-15 minutes.
8-10x300m hill sprints with 300m jogging rest
We did the above workout two times a week
1km at ridiculously fast pace
100m/200m/300m x 6 at race pace or faster alternating intervals on the track with jogging rest
The key for the 800m guys (unlike the sprinters) was that he had is hammer the 1km before our workout started. The true sprinters jogged that 1km or skipped it altogether.
He really emphasized doing a lot of our work on the track. We also did tons of weights and guzzled whey protein. He tried to get me to take creatine but I puked each time so he had me eat a boiled egg instead. The whole team was buff and jacked.
He specifically said we were to never go over 30mpw, more like 25mpw. We were free to jog on days we werent training, but given we trained like the above 5 days a week its not like we had much energy for anything else.
Olympic Truth wrote:
He ran 47 once. So he was a 48/49 runner. Educate yourself
Late to the party, sorry. This isn't exactly accurate. I mean, true, his best open 400m in high school was 47.96, but he only ran the event four times his senior year and routinely won by 3+ seconds.
His 4x400m splits were pretty quick, though. I sat in the stands at his conference meet and watched him split out at 45.92FAT - almost certainly his fastest in high school, in a race in which he had a big gap to close. He split mid-47s at regional and state finals as well.
I'm not really sure what your purpose in posting such nonsense here is, although I am pretty sure it's not the "I'm just bringing the TRUTH" that you're portraying. I can think of several possible reasons, though, and none of them reflect well on you.
20-30 miles is easily twice the mileage of a world-class 400m guy, don't see the big deal.
Guys like Henry Marsh running 8:10, David oorcroft 13:00 and Jim Spivey 3:34 off of 40 mpw...that's a different story!
formerD1 wrote:
You imbeciles. Fools really.
Rudisha ushered in a new paradigm of 800m training. The guy ran 35mpw in base and 25mpw in training. Google it if you don't believe me and hear it from Colm himself.
The days of Symmonds are over.
Sprint studs with raw 400m speed are going to dominate the 800m. The rash of incredible new times from younger runners is occuring because of the Rudisha inspired 800m specific training.
Back in the 80s, this is what people were saying about Coe. As it turned out, Coe's training (or people's understanding of what it was) really only worked well for Coe.
And then they were saying that Joaquim Cruz was the future of 800m training.
From 1908 Olympic Gold 800 metres, Mel Sheppard, USA, a 48.8 400 metres man which was a solid time then, was a low mileage 800 metres man. Tom Courtney, 1956 Olympic Gold 800 metres, USA, a 45.8 400 metres man. Courtney was a low mileage 800 metres man. All USA 800 metres men between Mel Sheppard through Tom Courtney were low mileage 800 metres men. The worst thing that happened in 800 metres was Peter Snell having success on Arthur Lydiard's program of 100 miles/wk. + for every athlete from 800 metres through Marathon. No one knew exact details of Sebastian Coe's training until his father began writing books in the 1990's. Marcello Fiasconaro, ITL/RSA set the 800 metres world record in 1973, a 45.7 man. He poked holes in Lydiards theory of high mileage for 800 metres runners. Alberto Juantorena, a few years later in 1976, a 44.26 400 metres man further destroyed Lydiard's theory of high mileage for 800 metres. In the 1960's Mal Whitfield, USA, a 400/800 Olympic medalist and a 45.9 400 metres man, went to Africa and set up running training camps. As has been stated, many African 800 metres runners were never Lydiard high mileage 800 metres men. There are roughly 127 sub-1:44 800 metres men. Feel free to go through the list and pick the Lydiard high mileage men.
Coming from you, someone on a message board, it doesn't matter. And your lack of intelligence when it comes to track doen't reflect well on you. My purpose is to point out the facts concerning his progression clearly show he is using PEDs.
Olympic Truth wrote:
Coming from you, someone on a message board, it doesn't matter. And your lack of intelligence when it comes to track doen't reflect well on you. My purpose is to point out the facts concerning his progression clearly show he is using PEDs.
Your problem is, your "facts" are ill-informed at best or preferentially selected to drive a narrative at worst (and my opinion of you is firmly in the latter camp).
Look, just say "Oh, sorry, didn't realize he'd been sub-46 in high school. That does change things, doesn't it?" Then you can save a little bit of face and exit the conversation without too much more embarrassment, eh?