The rising trend of the shaming of fast runners at races.

AndyC wrote:

To go back to the original post, there is an interesting trio of short books (and I mean short - less than 25 pages each) called 'Running Away from the Race', available free for Kindle on Amazon UK, on the divide between serious runners and joggers that has emerged in the last few decades in Britain.

Thanks for pointing towards this:

trackster%rrr wrote:

Many track races require this. If track meets with a thousand competitors can do it (examples Stanford or Payton jordan), so why can't a local 5k? Usually those track meets cost less to enter than the local 5k too.

Track races don't verify everyone, they just ask everyone to submit a time for seeding. Unless you're trying to get into the "A" heat or flight they aren't looking anything up. They also have the advantage of an infinitesimal number of "casual" participants.

Since I do manage the seeding for a small track event I'm pretty familiar with the time it takes to verify previous race times, and it's totally unrealistic to expect non-professional road races to do the same thing for anything outside of a handful of the participants.

At any given event a full third of the participants haven't ever done it before. I worked the pace team booth at the Chicago Marathon for a couple years and a disturbing percentage of young, semi-fit males showed two days before the race without a clear idea of what their finish time would be. I had one guy right out of college come up and ask for a 2:50 bib because his roommate said that's what he should ask for, even though his longest run was 14 miles and he couldn't remember how long it took him. I was keeping a bib# log that year and checked him out afterward, he went out at 2:50 pace and kept with the group for 10K which isn't bad, but the last 20 miles were a slogfest and he must have walked the last 5K to finish around 4:15.

In any case I don't see any evidence of a "rising trend" or even a "trend" of shaming faster runners. I have seen a fairly constant number of jerks mostly in charity events that feel the speedsters take away from their event. My advise to speedsters is stay away from those types of events. If they don't appreciate your presence don't give them your money. Simple as that.

Looking For a Rainbow wrote:

I am definitely a hobby jogger, but one that still wins occasional races. My main beef has been race directors who don't seem to care about scheduling races where the leaders run into the slower masses towards the end of the race.

I have run two Halfs this year and in both of them, I have had to fight my way past 5k walkers over the last 800 meters. In one, I was racing a guy for the win.

I actually like these...makes me feel faster :-)

There's definitely a disconnect between fun runners and competitive runners that doesn't exist in other sports. Ours is the only sport where participation is so open to everyone and a 30min 5ker can line up in the same race as an Olympian.

For the vast majority of us on Letsrun, running races have always been intense/competitive events. Fun runners never ran races in high school or college, so I don't blame them for not understanding why we take it so seriously.

I do fear for the future of competitive racing. with the rise in popularity of color runs and fun runs, along with the growing presence of "finishers" rather than racers, there's a risk that real races will start to disappear. We're already being pushed to the margins of the sport. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm having difficultly finding races to run these days where I don't have to dress up like Santa, run with my dog, or have colored powder thrown in my face.

Anyone who uses the term "shaming" deserves a fate worse than death.

That is all.

I think a lot of it has to do with it being "their" experience. they paid money they want to participate on their level and maybe seeing someone fly to the finish line trying to win doesn't resonate with them. I don't think its shaming necessarily. they probably look at the winners and say "they doesn't even look like fun." again, it doesn't resonate.

I do remember one time I was finishing a half marathon (not winning or anything, but I placed in the top-25 or so and was kind of all alone at the end) and there was a small stretch where you had to run on a paved trail that wasn't very wide (dumb idea). there was also a 5k or 5-miler and there were these two ladies walking to the finish, but right next to each other blocking the whole trail and I yelled that I was coming and was going to pass on the left (hoping they'd move over which they did not). I had to slow down, go around them where there wasn't room to pass (trail sloped down a short hill on one side and spectators on the other side). I yelled again for this except I said "god dammit!" looking right at them and then kept going. that's never happened to me before, and I was pissed for all of 5 seconds, but I'm sure they thought I was a dick for yelling and told everyone they talked to about the race about what an ass bag I was for yelling and why should they move out of my way?

I don't know if that story is shaming or not, but it does show some disconnect between someone doing the even for fun vs. trying to run for time. is it their fault for not knowing they needed to move (I side with yes, plus since I wasn't near the leaders I couldn't have been the first person to pass so why take up the whole trail), but really that might not have crossed their mind.

I experience this today at a rinky dink local 5k, and glad I found a thread for it.

~250 runners on an out and back road course. There were maybe 5 people that looked like serious runners, me and a few high school XC kids. We went out in a pack and then I was all alone by the 1st mile. Things were great until the turnaround when I had to travel upstream through everybody. Then people were making passive-aggressive comments and intentionally blocking the path, comments like "Hey it's JUST a fun run, a-hole!" I was on 5:10 pace and then the last mile was like 5:45 so it really slowed me down. The thing is, there was a reason to race because there were gift certs and trophies for the winners. Is a race supposed to be for competitive runners, or a family social event?

I'm just ranting now, but I watched everyone else finish and only 4 other people were sub-20 and MOST people crossing weren't totally exhausted. It baffles me that the majority of people aren't racing 100%, or even close to 50%?!?! And then expecting applause for it?? I'm sorry but I can't respect a race effort that isn't wobbling across the line in maximum oxygen deprivation. I haven't raced in awhile but is this the state of races nowadays?

i heard a story once about a masters runner who was mad he lost to someone or another. Can't remember the details though.

For Shame wrote:

Anyone who uses the term "shaming" deserves a fate worse than death.

That is all.

True. The people who feel the need to be "shaming" others are insecure with an inferiority complex. Like they're somehow trying to justify bullying others because they're supposedly perfect themselves.

wowboyz wrote:

The worrying thing is the seeming belief that things are "easy" for fast runners.

The prevailing view seems to be "I am fat and out of shape, I can barely run but I am still out there 3 days a week killing myself for 30 minutes at a time. You are a skinny, naturally fit runner, it must be so easy for you".

The view just infuriates me but shows just how little knowledge the general populace has about running at a high level.

These people never stop to think of the training that goes into these times. The getting out of bed at 6 am to run doubles, or facing into a 5xmile workout when you legs are completely jacked from running 90 miles a week.

People just don't get it!

Well if you think about it is easy for a serious runner to run a 5k, I mean it's three miles. If you run 90 mile weeks, every run you do might be more than 3 miles. If a serious runner ran a 5k just to finish, it would be stupidly easy. Also many slow people think anything under 6:30 pace is the same, simply because they can't move themselves very fast, and cannot appreciate a person running a long distance at that pace. I can run a 400 in 60 seconds and really appreciate a sub 4 miler, because they run 4 of those at a slightly faster pace without stopping, and I am pretty gassed after just one. The kinds of hobby joggers we are talking about can barely run 6:00 pace for 100m. So when they can't tell the difference, they see running a longer distance as more impressive over a faster, shorter race. I would be willing to bet that most hobby joggers would think a 2:50 marathon was much better than a 15:00 5k.

Some other reasons why hobby joggers can't distinguish speed of a distance runner:

1. Running 5:00 pace (especially when the hobby jogger is running the opposite direction of you) doesn't look very fast

2. Most fast runners look relaxed, have good form, don't have a pain face (for a long portion of the race) and in general don't look like they are straining too hard, making them think you aren't trying very hard.

3. Even if hobby joggers did think you were moving fast it is hard for people that don't see a lot of fast running to tell the difference between 6:00 and 5:00 pace (e.g. could you tell the difference between a 90 mph fastball and a 95 mph fastball? I bet an MLB player could)

Me Fail English wrote:

I had an English teach in High School who used to drill it into our heads that it was "Couldn't" care less and that the vast majority of people got it wrong.

Thus proving HL Mencken right when he said:

With precious few exceptions, all the books on style in English are by writers quite unable to write. The subject, indeed, seems to exercise a special dreadful fascination over schoolma’ms, bucolic college professors, and other such pseudo-literates....

In a thousand texts they set forth their depressing ideas about it, and millions of suffering high-school pupils have to study what they say. Their central aim, of course, is to reduce the whole thing to a series of simple rules--the overmastering passion of their melancholy order, at all times and everywhere. They aspire to teach it as bridge whist, the American Legion flag-drill and double-entry bookkeeping are taught....

The essence of a sound style is that it cannot be reduced to rules--that it is a living and breathing thing, with something of the devilish in it...

Literature and the Schoolma'ams (1926).

His discussion of "Grammarians and Their Ways" is also on point:

There's a 5K near where I live that gives out finisher medals for the "race." Needless to say I won't be entering that one.

Bad rememberer of stories wrote:

i heard a story once about a masters runner who was mad he lost to someone or another. Can't remember the details though.

There is a 49 year old master in our community...