Haile G tells LetsRun.com how he'd beat Mo Farah - "I'd finish him early"

Logical Fallacy wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

It is logical fallacy to say that something can't happen because it hasn't.

Ummm, no ... it i logical fallacy to ASS-U-ME that something CAN happen because it hasn't.

Strawman level over 9000.

No one is claiming that because Mo hasn't run a certain time, that therefore, Mo can run that time.

0/10

no, I'm not ventolin, f*** off wrote:

I guess Renato is a Mobot-fanboy:

Renato Canova wrote:

Don't think the real value of Mo is 12'53". He ran already 12'57" in 2010, when we worked together for some month in Iten, in Zurich, and now is very much stronger, after going to Salazar. To think can run near 12'40" is something reasonable, such as the possibility of running under 26'30" in 10000m.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&thread=5302291&id=5302709#5302709

Why would that make him a Mobot fanboy? Canova did not say he was GOAT. He also didn't say he could run 12:40 or 12:42. He said it was reasonable to THINK that. Why do you always post this Canova quote in irrelevant places? Why do you never read what he actually said?

Metric Miler wrote:

In answer to Pootz... You are great at cherry picking and ignoring results when it doesn't suit you. That race had a last km under 2:30 it was pure sit and kick.

Listen, why don't you answer to Kejelchas 12:53.

BRUSSELS

1 ETH KEJELCHA, Yomif 12:53.98

2 ETH GEBRHIWET, Hagos 12:54.70

3 MAR IGUIDER, Abdelaati 12:59.25

4 KEN LONGOSIWA, Thomas Pkemei 12:59.72

5 KEN NDIKU, Caleb Mwangangi 13:05.30

6 ETH ALAMIREW, Yenew 13:05.53

7 USA TRUE, Ben 13:05.54

8 USA HILL, Ryan 13:05.69

9 KEN KOECH, Paul Kipsiele 13:07.74

10 USA RUPP, Galen 13:08.38

11 KEN KIPSANG, Emmanuel 13:08.55

12 CAN AHMED, Mohammed 13:10.00

Why is your reading comprehension so bad? I didn't cherry pick anything and I didn't ignore any results. I already implicitly mentioned the results you just posted. The problem is that you can't read.

What I ACTUALLY said was that the Africans form fluctuates very much and very quickly. What you just posted supports that. In the race results I posted, you should have seen that many of them were not good shape that day. Yes, I know it was a sit and kick race and that's what makes my point even more evident.

In a sit and kick race, you lose by 4-5 seconds at most. If you are further back than that, then you never kicked. If you never kicked, then you never changed pace. If you never changed pace, then you were already going all out and redlining.

So for the guys within a few seconds of Farah in that Lausanne race, sure they were in better than 13:10 shape that day. The guys 5-10+ seconds back were not. This proves my point and disproves yours (3 or 4 of yours to be exact). Admit it.

So don't accuse me of ignoring and cherry picking. Read what I actually said and think about it.

I did not write the post below. Someone lifted my user name. It is folly to pretend Mo Farah can run 5k or 10k as fast as Geb. That said, Mo's championship record of wins speaks for itself.

reader of the forums wrote:

Logical Fallacy wrote:

Ummm, no ... it i logical fallacy to ASS-U-ME that something CAN happen because it hasn't.

Strawman level over 9000.

No one is claiming that because Mo hasn't run a certain time, that therefore, Mo can run that time.

0/10

LM wrote:

Given #3, you'll have to explain how Lausanne then is any sort of proof that the guys on that day were in 13:10 shape. Unless they get dropped running 13:10 pace, which none of the relevant Africans did, then the race doesn't tell you much about the competitors fitness on a given day.

Now, if you're referring to the bottom half of non contenders that ran 13:30+ and were dropped well before the bell...carry on.

You just explained it. They got dropped running 13:10 or slower pace. Plenty of relevant Africans did this that day: Edris, Karoki, Alamirew, Ndiku, Kipsiro (who ran 13:40+). Yes, I know that one of those guys fell I think. If you call those guys noncontenders, you haven't been paying attention.

What i told the other guy: "In a sit and kick race, you lose by 4-5 seconds at most. If you are further back than that, then you never kicked. If you never kicked, then you never changed pace. If you never changed pace, then you were already going all out and redlining.

So for the guys within a few seconds of Farah in that Lausanne race, sure they were in better than 13:10 shape that day. The guys 5-10+ seconds back were not."

reader of the forums wrote:

I did not write the post below.

Correct.

You didn't write that post. I did.

reader of the forums wrote:

Someone lifted my user name.

No.

YOU lifted MY username, the one I have posted under for years, by registering it.

reader of the forums wrote:

It is folly to pretend Mo Farah can run 5k or 10k as fast as Geb.

As further proof that you registered my handle so that I couldn't post under it anymore, here are a number of posts made under the handle "reader of the forums" in which I wrote that Mo CAN run a fast 5k/10k.

YOU on the other hand are probably the same dipshit the stalks me and calls me Ventolin EVERY TIME I post that quote from Renato. All under different names of course. Just like in this thread.

Here are some examples of your obsessive stalker behavior:

Nice job registering my name. Too bad there are posts like those linked above that contradict what you just wrote under my name.

Kill yourself.

You posted links to threads I STARTED, fool.

Those threads weren't started by "reader of the forums".

And more proof you are a dipshit:

You post your replies ABOVE what you quote, whereas I never have.

If you are going to steal my handle, then at least do a better job at impersonating me. Moron.

reported

I agree with the majority of this.

Ndiku fell, and Alamirew was disrupted by the fall enough to not be able to catch back on. So those two probably should be discounted. Everyone else was subject to a normal race.

Only area I somewhat disagree with is on degree of closeness. They were running about 13:20 pace leading up, or 64s laps. Farah closed in 54, meaning absolute no change of pace would result in a 10s gap. However, the pace actually begin to accelerate about 580m out, and resulted in a 62.8 penultimate lap, meaning 11s would be the margin for a guy that maintained his pace perfectly. 11.xx to be fair since Farah had the lead at the bell.

Now, if you can't kick at all, you probably don't have it in you to run any faster on that day. But I'd say if you're able to pick it up 2-3 seconds over the last lap, there was definitely some more in the tank. I'd give "unknown, but probable 13:0x status to guys within 7 or 8 seconds of Farah.

There is one confounder though, that likely favors the other direction, namely that guys have a tendency to shut it down once they are out of contention. In other words if Farah blasts away on 54s pace and all you have is 56s in you, there is a tendency to just cruise in from there and finish with a 6x even though you weren't desperately maxed.

I don't entirely disagree that some of the guys sometimes show up in questionable shape, but there can be many factors: just a really bad day, injury issues in training, travel related problems, etc. I think it's more unique that Farah doesn't have bad days, the closest I can remember being that loss to Soi when he said he was ill.

To me that suggests one of two possibilities: Farah and his support team have it fantastically dialed to ensure everything goes as well as possible leading into race day AND/OR Farah is fit enough that even on a pretty bad day he can be in the mix. I have no doubts the former plays a chunk of the role, but this is the main reason it wouldn't surprise me if Farah was capable of a 12:4x, even 12:4x low, type of time. To be clear I don't find it to be evidence supporting the notion Farah can run low 12:40s, but as I've said a few times it definitely does make me believe Farah is in at least 12:50 flat shape. It's incredibly hard for me to imagine a guy in the upper 12:50 ranges never, ever in 4 years having a race where they are more than 5-10s away from PR fitness on a given day.

Aranesp! wrote:

Again, it's all you have to watch to come to an unbiaised opinion on this topic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TrkL8OqxJU

Mo can't touch this, even in his sweetest dreams! It's probably the most dominant display of running in a 500m race, ever!

What a truly epic race. Just the billing alone - Haile, Komen, Tergat, even Bobby Kennedy. And then the finish. That last 250m was spectacular!

I personally believe that all the Lausanne results show is nobody is as good at Farah at kicking, and he controls the race (which we know and if you watched the race you'd know too). This does nothing to explain the fitness of these athletes. It was tactical, the time is irrelevant. If Farah was not there then the race could easily have been 15 seconds faster, the problem with races with Farah in is the field appears to react to him. Essentially everyone is trying to take the biggest scalp and doesn't care about times.

As for Brussels, if you truly believe that the atheletes go from 13:20 shape during the big competition they have all been training for specifically, to 12:53-13:10 shape in a couple of weeks after, you have no experience in athletics/know nothing. I don't even think that is physiologically possible.

One other thing, will you stop claiming people are lying like a petulant child. To lie is to falsify information, to misrepresent or change facts. I have never lied. I have presented my considered opinions. Sometimes these are accompanied with sources/references or results which are pure fact (such as the times run in different competitions and the results from Brussels). How you choose to interpret them is up to you, but they are pure facts by definition. I am offering my opinion, as are you (somewhat crudely) as to what this data means. There is no lying, there are no right answers.

If you wish to be listened to then you could present your ideas with some basis as to why you think them. I don't know how far you got in school but to present ideas with explanations and sources is rather elementary. It's not a case that I 'cannot read' but rather that you cannot write comprehensibly.

If you really believe that there is a 'right answer' and you know this for certain, you are incredibly obtuse and I wish you the best in life but will not take part in any further discussion.

rekrunner wrote:

If EPO use in track was so widespread, and effective, I would have expected better times from rich nations who struggle to beat their own times from the pre-EPO 80's. I guess the cyclists used up all the national supplies, and the East Africans have no cyclists to share with.

Jon Orange wrote:

EPO is just hype. It supposedly delivers more oxygen. Does that mean that is breaks down more glycogen too? I thought that was the role of adrenaline?

Why do none of the fizzyologists get involved in this debate?

Fear and ignorance. And they don't want their fear and ignorance to show, it will ruin them.

Yes, rekrunner, that's a very good point. And I'm sure it has been widespread, but 'effective'? It's all in the head, a point which so many peoply desperately deny, and they think that I'm the one who is in denial.

Geb in his prime would finish him early, mid-race or late! No doubt about it!

From mobot to nobot. Geb would crush Farah. The Farah-brand would never see the light of day; the best possible result.

LetsRun.com wrote:

10 minutes with the GOAT here:

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/10/10-minutes-with-legend-haile-gebrselassiehaile-gebrselassie-reveals-how-hed-beat-mo-farah-id-finish-him-early-as-hes-inducted-in-nyrr-hall-of-fame-with-paul-tergat-paula-radcliffe-and/

It was a special afternoon in NYC as Haile, Paul Tergat, Paula Radcliffe and Tegla Loroupe were all in the same room/

to kill mo is damn damn hard

- 1500 : Ryun, komen, keino, noah, asbel, bernie, hicham, wouda run away from mo at bell

i'm making big call for me :

I'd call the komen of '97-berlin best 2nd 1500 runner who drew breathe

he ran ~ 12 - 15m extra on bends in 3'46 exclusive of suicidal sprint wide in 1st 200 which probably killed him within 20s !!!

it might just edge keino for 3rd

no matter how hard i think or analyze 800 / mile runs, this crushes anything which ever drew breathe into oblivion at 800 - mile

This is just so irrelevant. You just try and take any opportunity to talk about Ryun or Komens theoretical fitness.

Nobody doubts that some runners can run away from Farah in the 1500m?!! He has never won one against the top current guys! In Monaco he came 4th?! So you can add Makloufi and Iguider to that list.

Stick to the topic

eh ?

nonsense

Ryun is best

800

or

1500

who ever drew breathe

didn't even train for

800 !!!

very very few

you have little clue

mo was likely in

~ 26'20 - 26'25

that's how he destroyed even Kamwo who couda taken him to oblivion if other 2 chumps offered up 26-mid/high to 8k to sacrifice themselves

utterly clueless

3'28.9 !!!

virtually solo !!!!

that is

~ 3'26.5

ideally paced to bell off even-pace

ideal-drafting is

~ 0.7s / lap

inept

how clueless are you ???

one of the most magnificent 1500s in history

he ran a solo 1500 behind Asbel

how inept are you to not realise this ??

nonsense

maloofi in '12

~ 1'42-flat / 3'26-high

won gold !!!

you waste my time

you have no clue about middle-distance

laughable !

you drivel about a topic that is coupla 100 posts ole !!

inept...