Fastest 8th Grader in the nation?

baysis wrote:

Peaked in 8th grade wrote:

Here is a real-life case study ...

I ran a 4:39 1600 in 8th grade at almost age 15 (June Bday). A school record that stood for 20+ years. This was my 1st season of competitive running off of a football/wrestling background so I was not at all over-trained. Our coaches had no idea what they were doing and of course, neither did I.

Much better coaching in HS but never ran more than 50 mpw; more like 30-40 in 10th and 11th grade. Ran 4:18 my soph year in relay; 4:17 junior year; 4:16 senior year at state meet at age 19 (almost). A bit of a bust, especially for my age and early promise.

Ran at a decent D1 college in a very mediocre conference. 3:50/4:07 (DMR 1600), 1:55, 14:32. Was 5-7th man in CC. Never faster than 25:00 for 8k.

That's my story FWIW.

What's your basis for calling a 4:16 HS PR a bust. A 4:39 in 8th grade is obviously impressive, but does it really necessarily forecast faster than 4:16 in HS? 4:

baysis wrote:

Peaked in 8th grade wrote:

Here is a real-life case study ...

I ran a 4:39 1600 in 8th grade at almost age 15 (June Bday). A school record that stood for 20+ years. This was my 1st season of competitive running off of a football/wrestling background so I was not at all over-trained. Our coaches had no idea what they were doing and of course, neither did I.

Much better coaching in HS but never ran more than 50 mpw; more like 30-40 in 10th and 11th grade. Ran 4:18 my soph year in relay; 4:17 junior year; 4:16 senior year at state meet at age 19 (almost). A bit of a bust, especially for my age and early promise.

Ran at a decent D1 college in a very mediocre conference. 3:50/4:07 (DMR 1600), 1:55, 14:32. Was 5-7th man in CC. Never faster than 25:00 for 8k.

That's my story FWIW.

What's your basis for calling a 4:16 HS PR a bust. A 4:39 in 8th grade is obviously impressive, but does it really necessarily forecast faster than 4:16 in HS? 4:

jokerclown wrote:

who cares about all these "fastest X age".

as someone who ran junior olympics and was all-american for my age group (youth 13-14),

a lot of these prodigies peak in high school, or freshman year of college if they decide to run collegiately.

i saw myself and many others who were the best at X age burn out.

none of these people end up near elite levels on the world stage (which is really what matters), and usually all of these fast times is just to peak in high school and maximize college admissions for stanford / ivy league.

then the prodigy runs decent freshman year, but realizes college is way more fun when you aren't dieting and training like a madman, while everyone else has a fun party lifestyle. then they drop out of running or revert back to the mean (not a stand-out prodigy anymore) and don't become a professional runner.

this has happened so many times ad nausea. I've seen it happen with countless high school stars who joined Stanford too, and even prodigies from Junior Olympics who joined them too.

it's actually a bad thing to be running too fast in middle school / under 16 in my opinion.

wde213eewdsad wrote:

jokerclown wrote:

who cares about all these "fastest X age".

as someone who ran junior olympics and was all-american for my age group (youth 13-14),

a lot of these prodigies peak in high school, or freshman year of college if they decide to run collegiately.

i saw myself and many others who were the best at X age burn out.

none of these people end up near elite levels on the world stage (which is really what matters), and usually all of these fast times is just to peak in high school and maximize college admissions for stanford / ivy league.

then the prodigy runs decent freshman year, but realizes college is way more fun when you aren't dieting and training like a madman, while everyone else has a fun party lifestyle. then they drop out of running or revert back to the mean (not a stand-out prodigy anymore) and don't become a professional runner.

this has happened so many times ad nausea. I've seen it happen with countless high school stars who joined Stanford too, and even prodigies from Junior Olympics who joined them too.

it's actually a bad thing to be running too fast in middle school / under 16 in my opinion.

As someone who was also a decent youth runner, the chances of being a worldwide elite are near zero. The chances of even being a college or even *high school* star are not that great.

Get while the getting is good. My memories are no less good because I failed to be an NCAA star. Are yours?

jokerclown wrote:

wde213eewdsad wrote:

As someone who was also a decent youth runner, the chances of being a worldwide elite are near zero. The chances of even being a college or even *high school* star are not that great.

Get while the getting is good. My memories are no less good because I failed to be an NCAA star. Are yours?

these youth coaches and parents just optimize for the short-term. they want the absolute fastest times when the kid isn't even done developing yet. no childhood, just train train train.

i would have rather enjoyed my youth while training for longevity, and continue developing in college, and hopefully peak in my 20s as a pro athlete. with progressive improvements. that's the ideal scenario.

the kids running these fast times have the mentality in reverse. peak early and slowly get worse relative to everyone else, as they get older. it's very damaging psychologically to not see the same exponential growth.

of course personally i wouldn't take back things, but there is a right way to train and a less right way to train.

jwolten wrote:

jokerclown wrote:

these youth coaches and parents just optimize for the short-term. they want the absolute fastest times when the kid isn't even done developing yet. no childhood, just train train train.

i would have rather enjoyed my youth while training for longevity, and continue developing in college, and hopefully peak in my 20s as a pro athlete. with progressive improvements. that's the ideal scenario.

the kids running these fast times have the mentality in reverse. peak early and slowly get worse relative to everyone else, as they get older. it's very damaging psychologically to not see the same exponential growth.

of course personally i wouldn't take back things, but there is a right way to train and a less right way to train.

Holding a grudge on your parents and coach is not healthy. You could bear some of the blame for burning out. There are great age group stars like Athing Mu, Cooper Teare, Cory McGee, Katelyn Tuohy, Mary Slaney, Jakob Ingribrigtsen, Niels Lagos.. list goes on and on and on.