Hello Renato Canova!
I've read with great interest some of your posts, and I would be very happy if you find the time to contact me via: thegreatdistancerunners.de (I could't find an email-address of yours).
I have a few questions for you, but this forum is not the right place. Thanks a lot for your effort!
ok so Rigorous?
do you have any PROOF OR INFORMATION LIKE.....?
If the 1:42.7 tt were true then surely that would have been alluded to in his response!?
I would think it most probable that the 1:42.7 tt is just a rumour invented by someone connected to the group on the periphery.[/quote]
Also other said why would he run an 800m race when he might get beat. Well off that 1:42.7 who would have beaten him, only one person and surely he could have picked a race he was not in
Its BS to hide the fact he had limited speed which set the alarm bells ringing for Mo as well. Steve Ovett could run 12.9 before he could walk!
He Did wrote:
Certainly Not Skuj wrote:Renato I must ask you: you seem to have great respect for Aouita, but what do you think about the debacle coming from his time in Australia? (ie some claimed he told them to take drugs.)
He did and was outed and kicked out of the country:
"Coach told athletes to use drugs
By Scott Gullan
February 18, 2006
AUSTRALIAN athletes were ordered to take performance enhancing drugs by former national distance coach Said Aouita.
While Aouita, the former Morocco Olympic 5000m champion, was investigated over drug allegations in 2002, The Saturday Daily Telegraph can now reveal that one of the key witnesses in that inquiry had been intimidated into not speaking out.
Melissa Rollison, a medal prospect in the 3000m steeplechase at next month's Commonwealth Games, has lifted the lid on one of the darkest periods in the sport by revealing that Aouita urged her to take human growth hormone (HGH) while on a training camp in the US in 2003.
"He talked about it [drugs] every day," she said. "We had to go to America because that's where you get HGH and all this stuff.
"I said right at the start that I wasn't interested and he was like: 'Everyone else is on it so why wouldn't you want to?'.
"I said I wanted to make it the proper way, but he then tried to convince me that HGH wasn't illegal. He said it couldn't be tested and that because my hormones were so low it would just bring me up to the normal person."
Aouita's two-year stint as a national coach ended in 2004 amid controversy after Victorian athlete Mark Fountain, who was on the camp in Albuquerque with Rollison, raised the drug allegations in a letter sent to the Australian Sports Commission.
The Moroccan, arguably the greatest middle-distance runner in history, was later cleared after an investigation by the ASC, Athletics Australia and the Australian Institute of Sport.
But Rollison said she now regretted not backing up Fountain and claimed she had been intimidated and manipulated into keeping quiet.
With the Athens Olympics on the horizon, the junior world record holder panicked when then national coach Keith Connor rang and said if the allegations were true she would be coming home.
"All I was thinking about was the Olympics and I stupidly said, 'No, it's not true'," Rollison said. "But everything he [Fountain] wrote in the report was true. I mean we all sat down and wrote it together.
"I was so stupid and it got him [Fountain] into a lot of trouble, but really he was the smart one who got out of there then. I then sort of convinced myself it was all lies and trusted Said again because he was just so good at convincing you, manipulating you."
Rollison, 22, maintains she didn't take any drugs and became so paranoid that she wouldn't eat or drink anything that she hadn't prepared herself during her time with Aouita.
"I was too scared to eat anything that I hadn't made myself and I kept my drinks in my room," she said.
Fountain was shunned by the authorities after his allegations - which included perceived favouritism by Aouita towards one of the squad members, Commonwealth Games 800m and 1500m runner Suzy Walsham of Sydney.
There is no suggestion that Connor or Walsham were involved with drug use or endorsed Aouita's alleged advocacy of drug use.
Fountain has maintained a low profile since until venturing home for the Commonwealth Games selection trials earlier this month where he qualified for the 1500m.
When contacted by The Saturday Daily Telegraph in Arkansas last night, Fountain said he was glad his story was now being supported by Rollison.
"I think everyone is well aware of what happened and if they want to tell their side of the story then that is great to see," he said.
Aouita fled Australia shortly after the Olympic trials in 2004 and has never returned.
He was recently appointed consultant to Aspire, the Academy for Sports Excellence, in Doha, Qatar."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/11/27/1069825917213.htmlhttp://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/aouita-probe-to-145leave-no-stone-unturned146/2006/02/18/1140151850988.htmlhttp://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/11/24/1069522536810.htmlhttp://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/aouita-probe-to-145leave-no-stone-unturned146/2006/02/18/1140151850988.html
Another drug link to El G.
The Australian U.S. based training camp was in Albuquerque.
Where did El G and many others do off-season training?
Albuquerque.
If Albuquerque was such a mecca for off-season training, why has it lost favor as an ideal training spot?????
Ah ha!
was el guerrouj in albuquerque too?
paula radcliffe too
the palce was amecca when epo was freely available
I didn't know that El G trained in Albuquerque. Like Eddy Hellebuyck, Paula...and many others.
I thought he did his offseason trainings in Ifrane...or some place in the Atlas Mountains.
no
el g didn't
why would he
lol!! wrote:
was el guerrouj in albuquerque too?
paula radcliffe too
the palce was amecca when epo was freely available
"Last week Radcliffe had dinner with Hicham El Guerrouj after the two had teamed up in Albuquerque to film a new commercial for the pair's mutual sponsors."
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2005/mar/26/athletics.duncanmackayBen L Wrong wrote:
I didn't know that El G trained in Albuquerque. Like Eddy Hellebuyck, Paula...and many others.
And Khannouchi:
"He spends several weeks a year building his stamina in the high altitude of Albuquerque"
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/16/sports/running-from-morocco-to-brooklyn-a-runner-s-road-to-the-top.html?pagewanted=all&src=pmAnd Ramzi:
"In the winter of 2008, Ramzi entered once more a global championship without warm-up competition but finished a distant fifth (3:40.26) at the World Indoor Championships, in March, in Valencia. He then headed to Albuquerque for a two-month altitude training camp"
http://www.iaaf.org/news/news/focus-on-athletes-rashid-ramzi
Colorado miler wrote:Renato, I disagree with your arguments that El G was clean and here's why:...
Also El G wouldn't run 800s, many think this had to do with hiding doping
absolutely laughable !
perhaps mo was "hiding doping" by not running a serious 1500 in 4y but went out & ran
3'28
how about hicham didn't think he was going to run
1'41.10
back in '98 onwards & didn't want humilation of getting hammered by an expected fully fit kip in '98 onwards...???
1:41.10 and "humilation" in the same sentence?
So, you think Wilson Kipketer was in 1:40.xx shape? In 1998? What's the proof?
Moreover...why do you think that El G had 1:41 flat potential?
I don't know if EG sometimes was in Albuquerque for his training.
What I know is :
1. He had a house (very nice) in Ifrane, from 1995, and spent 90% of his training there. You must know that his training was "protected" by the coach Kada, because nobody, apart his goup, could use the track when EG had his training. Also EG is the holder of some of the "records" for the various circuits they use on the roads around Ifrane.
2. How you can see, the article regards a fact happened in 2005. But EG retired in 2004.... so sometimes may be better to learn to read, considering every point. Of sure, you don't have the attitude for becoming a good lawyer !
Renato Canova wrote:
2. How you can see, the article regards a fact happened in 2005. But EG retired in 2004.... so sometimes may be better to learn to read, considering every point. Of sure, you don't have the attitude for becoming a good lawyer !
I can read this:
"February 2005
•Having fallen behind in his preparations for the summer season, double olympic champion Hicham El Guerrouj flew to the United States mid-february for a 45-day training camp in Albuquerque."
http://www.africathle.com/gb/perso/news/news05.htmlThe Guardian article is dated the 26 March 2005:
"Last week Radcliffe had dinner with Hicham El Guerrouj ...in Albuquerque"
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2005/mar/26/athletics.duncanmackaySo Mr Judge and Jury, which source do I believe, those above or you?
Renato Canova wrote:
2. How you can see, the article regards a fact happened in 2005. But EG retired in 2004.... so sometimes may be better to learn to read, considering every point. Of sure, you don't have the attitude for becoming a good lawyer !
Mr Judge and Jury I also suggest you Google:
"hicham el guerrouj retirement announcement"
I think you'll find May 2006 comes up quite a bit.
Ben L Wrong wrote:
Moreover...why do you think that El G had 1:41 flat potential?
he was referring to kipketer
funny how the altitude training fad died off
when the epo ran out lol..
It's clear that blood doping was very common throughout the 90s and early 00's in endurance sports. Any high level coach who doesn't think it was (and probably still is) a massive & widespread problem must either be:
i) so naive and unaware that they cannot have been that important to their athletes
or
ii) lying to hide something
I notice also how the trend in the speed skating records are very similar to track distance
big drops around the mid 90s when epo took hold and improvement up to around 2006
makes me think those east africans were running on something more than fresh air
Both the articles speak about FEBRUARY 2005.
The last competition of EG in his life was the final in Olympic Games 2004, so 6 months before.
Also if he was not yet officially retired, his attempt to find again the right motivation didn't have success.
So, the two articles speak about the SAME DATE.
Where do you find some conflict between the two sources ?
This doesn't mean I don't know that before 2001 (not 2000) the use of EPO was frequent, since at that time it was not possible to detect it in direct way.
But, because I have more knowledge of all the LR posters about where clean athletes can arrive, may be EG was clean, may be not, but personally I don't have doubts considering the development of his career, or the fact he is Maroccan.
I was, I am and I'll be in the future ALWAYS against any generalization, giving somebody a "plate" due to other persons were able to do.