Sage Canaday blows up so badly in 100k that he has to walk downhills, still wins over Western States Record Holder

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) there are only a handful of times around 12 hours for 100 miles on a track or flat 1 mile loop. This year Jon Olsen ran a 12:29 at Desert Solstice, hands down the fastest of the year, the WR for 100 on a track is 11:29 (I think) back in 1977. so noone is running 12 hours for 100, no kenyan, no ethiopian....noone. wouldnt bother with it either if I were Kenyan and there was no money, but it's just hard to fathom why folks "assume" something that hasn't been proven.

Matt Carpenter's run at Leadville was supreme, but as we can see, it wasn't his first time there. He's a guy that had the aerobic capacity (VO2 max of 91) to run with Kenyans, but chose to win Pikes Peak 16 times, his baby.

There is money in ultrarunning if some fast roadies want it. They just have to run all day, not 30 minutes or less.

I was also thinking just a minute ago too. When we compare a 2:05 marathoner to a 100 mile runner....How come a 27 10k guy,like say Galen Rupp can't run a marathon in 2:05? He's got the speed right? But, he hasn't stepped up to the distance yet. It's almost the same analogy, he (in theory) should be able to run 2 hours right? But he won't cuz there are different variables involved.

And yes, I am slow, my marathon PR is a pedestrian 2:48. :-)

Technical courses are what I thrive on, so the balance gets more even. I do agree though, that if Kenyans or other fast European runners that can run a 2:08 marathon step up to 100s, they'll do great, but not right away. Go watch a video of Killian Jornet running downhill, noone will even stay remotely close. Even I could probably hang with any 215 marathoner downhill if it's technical enough. Alright, I think I'm done here, I have a 100 miles to go run that starts in 22 hours.

calebb wrote:

Road racers are better runners than ultra athletes.

End of discussion.

I'm shocked by comments like this--not just the brevity or crass of the statement, but of the utter ignorance of its contents.

"If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” -Albert Einstein

A runner that dominates at every kind of running, across every terrain, over every distance, has yet to exist.

Why do you take Timothy Olson's comments that he would "love to see" Max and Sage try 100 milers as trash talking? Tim is a humble, kind guy who loves the camaraderie of ultrarunning. He likely meant it in the same way that I'd love to see them step up in distance, namely that it would be exciting and great for the sport and if they do great, then fantastic! The bar would be raised yet again!

I don't understand the ego of some of the posters on this board.

Good for Sage, running as well as he has been. I'm happy for the guy. I hope he continues having fun, enjoys the trails, and keeps having great success. It'd be fantastic if his success brought more talent to the ultra scene. Hopefully the egos stay home, though.

Good luck out on the island. :)

Speedgoatkarl wrote:

Please show me how fast a "C list" road runner can beat me at 100 miles at altitude.

Holy moving the goalposts Batman!

Can we at least agree for the time being that C list roadies will beat ultras on distances from 100k on down, even with little ultra-specific training and race experience?

That's like saying any C list 100 yard dasher can beat El G at the 1500 meters. It's not going to happen.

That's not the real Speedgoat Karl...the real SG Karl is humble.

If you think about Sage's race strategy on the course, it was flawless. It worked. He made his move prematurely at mile 13. This separated him from the lead pack. I'm sure the veteran ultra runners were originally keen on the idea of keeping him in sight, then overtaking Sage when he appeared to be slowing down but, what Sage did was bone out and took the strong lead. The people behind him did not know how much of a lead he had until the turnaround. If the other runners had taken a more aggressive chase... before the turnaround Sage could've been caught but, they were taking it easy knowing going for it early would maybe make themselves blow up too before the end.

If any fast guys are reading this, it's the best approach on n out and back, any distance really. Go out fast and out of site.

Also, the only thing Sage needed to do in training to solidify the winning gap would have been downhill running. That would not even result in more time in the hills running but, less.

sdadas wrote:

That's not the real Speedgoat Karl...the real SG Karl is humble.

He may be humble, but he is no doormat.

The man just invited all those who so casually suggest that a 2:15 guy could dominate ultras to go right ahead and give it a go... and win $10K in the process. Let's see 'em at RRR100.

That ain't hubris, that's being open to PROVING it. SGK is up for it. Any of the folks spewing on here up for it?

"Any of the folks spewing on here up for it?"

I'd love to see it!

J.R. wrote:

That's like saying any C list 100 yard dasher can beat El G at the 1500 meters. It's not going to happen.

Nope. That's the whole point - it's completely unlike that. A better analogy would be back when the marathon boom began, and all the "elite" marathoners said that the 10k guys were no good at the distance.

Justin91 wrote:

J.R. wrote:

That's like saying any C list 100 yard dasher can beat El G at the 1500 meters. It's not going to happen.

Nope. That's the whole point

No, but that's the whole point?

You should have said "Yes! That's the whole point.

nutcase wrote:

so i looked up this tim olson's results:

he ran 50 miles in 6:53:29

this translates to a vdot of...43

yea, enough said.

But my vdot is 53. And my best mountain trail 50 mile time is 9:30. Which means Olson's vdot is really 72. That's just science.

Since there are so many trail runners on here, can uphills cause the legs to be sore? I always though it was just the downhills, but have been doing steep uphills on the treadmill and my upper legs have a very mild soreness, so much that I'm taking a few easy days before doing it again next time. Can someone elaborate about the relation of steep uphills to soreness in the upper legs, quads and gluts? I know uphills work the gluts, but what about the quads?

Take 2 months off.

I was there and ran the 100K at Tarawera last Saturday. Because it was an out and back, we saw all the elite runners coming back. Every single one of them acknowledged me (and Tim was probably the nicest of the bunch (well, him and Anna Frost) - I think he said something like I was looking good).

I was also there at prize giving the next day, sitting in the front row about three metres from where Sage, Tim and the other top 5 male finishers were standing. Tim was absolutely not trash talking when he said he'd love to see Sage at a 100 miler. In fact *both* of them joked about him running out of miles to catch up with Sage.

All I see on here is a bunch of haters. I run Ultras because I choose to do so, not because I'm not competitive in anything else. I run mid 15's in the 5k and sub 2 in the 800. I could very easily win 5ks and 10ks, but Ultras are what I enjoy. Those people on here who ridicule ultrarunners get beat by them in road races all the time... they just don't know it :)

Mods/brojos, it's time to get rid of this thread.

No one has brought up Michael Aish yet? He won his first ultra (Leadville 50), but missed the course record which is held by a ~17:00 5k guy.

Then tried to stay near the front group at the Leadville 100 and DNF'd. The front group was averaging ~10:00 miles.