WSOP, bad beats, great hands

!!!

I'm reviving this thread because I've gotten more involved in poker recently and have had decent success. With that success has come a few bad beats.

So at a tournament a couple of weeks ago, I'm sitting at Table #3. The very first hand dealt gives me pocket aces (never happens to me) and I raise and there are four callers! Flop comes out low rainbow and it's raised before it gets to me. I reraise and two guys stay in with me. The turn comes out nothing, I go all in and the other two guys fold. As it turns out, they had QQ and AKs, respectively, and I've taken over 60% of their chips on the first hand of the tourney.

Fast forward to the end of the tourney, I'm at the final table and there are four of us left. I have about 65% of all the chips in front of me, two other guys have maybe 5% each, and the guy who had AKs from the first hand made a miraculous comeback and has about 25% of the chips. So I get dealt AK and raise enough that the short stacks would both be all-in if they called me. They each fold, but the other guy goes all-in. I'm ready to deliver the death blow to the table (winning the hand would give me 90% of the chips), so I call. We flip over our cards and he has QJs.

The flop comes Q J 10 rainbow to give me the nut rainbow straight on the flop. He now has two pair, queens and jacks. The turn comes up nothing and the river comes up the queen of hearts to give him the full house. So he wound up with 50% of the chips and I have 40%. Long story short, I finished third in the tourney, but would have won if not for that damn queen showing up on the river!

On another note, I got The Professor, The Banker, and The Suicide King for Christmas and am reading it over the holidays. So far it is an excellent book for those who want a look into the livess of the top poker pros. It's the story of the richest poker game of all time (billionaire Andy Beal versus a consortium of seven top pros who combined their bankrolls).

worst I've seen was on TV a year ago, so maybe some of you saw it also.

KK goes up against A5. Don't remember the betting, but it was pretty big. Flop is K77, so there is a full house to start with. Turn card is another 7. The A5 guy goes all-in as a bluff and is obviously called. The river card is the 4th 7, so the five community cards are K7777. So A5 wins with the better kicker b/c KK can only use one of his kings.

I've been playing about 1 year now. Here is my worst beat.

At MGM in Vegas. 1-2 no limit. On BB with $250 in front of me. A weak player in first position raises pre-flop to $15. Amazingly, 6 people call. I look down at A/9 off suit. Pot odds, good enough to call $13 more to win $105, if I was to happen to flop a monster hand.

Flop: A K 9

I check. 1st position (woman) bets $30. Amazingly, 4 people call the $30. Pot now stands at $225. I raise $100, thinking the 4 people were on some ridiculous draws and the woman caught her weak Ace. She looks confident and reraises me all in. (She had nearly $1000 in front of her from exceptional luck through out the night). After some considerable thought, I call. The pot now stands at $675.

Her hand: K 9

My hand: A 9

Turn: 2

River: K

I was dizzy for a week.

everyone else always wins because of luck right? We always get sucked out and lose the monster pot.

No. But on that instance. I had 98%. That is without a doubt a suck out.

This was from last week on Party Poker. I have 8,8 on the button about 4 hands into a single table tournament. The guy in first position calls, with 5 people in the pot when it gets to me, so I just call. The flop comes 4, 7, 8 with two clubs. The small and big blinds check and the third guy bets 175. Everyone else folds, I raise to 400 to get some more chips and/or to try to chase out a flush draw. He raises me all-in, I put in my final 335 and he shows 5,6 unsuited with one club.

hayward102 wrote:

This was from last week on Party Poker. I have 8,8 on the button about 4 hands into a single table tournament. The guy in first position calls, with 5 people in the pot when it gets to me, so I just call. The flop comes 4, 7, 8 with two clubs. The small and big blinds check and the third guy bets 175. Everyone else folds, I raise to 400 to get some more chips and/or to try to chase out a flush draw. He raises me all-in, I put in my final 335 and he shows 5,6 unsuited with one club.

I don't think that is a bad beat. He had you beat from the get go on the flop. It was an unraised pot. He could have anything.

That K7777 hand however, is the worst I've heard.

Should I run the unofficial millenium mile tomorrow or go to Atlantic City and play poker?

There was one similar to this from the WSOP first hand this year. Some actor dude had 10 10 and Farha (the pro player) had A 10 off. I can't remember the exact order, but after the river it was A A 10 2 6 (the last two cards might be off). The actor goes all in with the 10s full of Aces and Farha calls. The actor guys slam his cards down smiling and then looks over to see Aces full of 10s to beat him. Out first hand.Probably not a bad beat, if there are two Aces out there you gotta play that careful since most people will play anything with an Ace in their hand.

brutal woodshed beating wrote:

worst I've seen was on TV a year ago, so maybe some of you saw it also.

KK goes up against A5. Don't remember the betting, but it was pretty big. Flop is K77, so there is a full house to start with. Turn card is another 7. The A5 guy goes all-in as a bluff and is obviously called. The river card is the 4th 7, so the five community cards are K7777. So A5 wins with the better kicker b/c KK can only use one of his kings.

Wejo is right. With all the neophytes in the game now, the terminology is being butchered. Getting beaten by a draw is not the same as a bad beat. Bad beats are rare. Being ahead with aces-up and losing the hand is not.

YAWN, and get to the next hand.

hayward102 wrote:

I raise to 400 to get some more chips and/or to try to chase out a flush draw. He raises me all-in, I put in my final 335 and he shows 5,6 unsuited with one club.

Raise for one and only one reason - to get more money into the pot.

malmo wrote:

hayward102 wrote:

I raise to 400 to get some more chips and/or to try to chase out a flush draw. He raises me all-in, I put in my final 335 and he shows 5,6 unsuited with one club.

Raise for one and only one reason - to get more money into the pot.

Is what you're saying you are raising not to chase them out of the pot but to raise enough that when/if they call they are making a bad call based on what the pot is offering?

Yes. When you raise you want callers. Don't make decisions based on what you imagine they might not have. Make decisions based on what you have.

"When I check, you check. When I bet, you call. When I raise, you reraise. When I fold, you get a straight flush." A code to live by.

wejo wrote:

[quote]

I don't think that is a bad beat. He had you beat from the get go on the flop. It was an unraised pot. He could have anything.

That K7777 hand however, is the worst I've heard.

Should I run the unofficial millenium mile tomorrow or go to Atlantic City and play poker?

I realize he had me beat from the flop. At a 10 person table, in first position pre-flop, I don't think playing 5,6 offsuit is a smart move. However, after that he didn't make any bad bets and then catch a lucky draw. He just flopped a monster when I thought I had a monster. Maybe I should say unlucky flop versus bad beat.

MGM wrote:

No. But on that instance. I had 98%. That is without a doubt a suck out.

Show me your calculations?

hayward102 wrote:

He just flopped a monster when I thought I had a monster. Maybe I should say unlucky flop versus bad beat.

There you go.

You flopped a monster for sure. But the nature of the flop served notice that you weren't getting off easy. The draw was there.

You have to be completely dispassionate about every hand you are in or you'll drive yourself nuts. Winning poker is not about winnings pots, it's about maintaining discipline when you are not.

If you find that your heartrate rises when you have interest in a big pot, it's a sure sign that you are not yet a seasoned player. Tell yourself, "all pots are the same" -- AND MEAN IT! Don't worry, it's not an easy thing.

malmo wrote:

You have to be completely dispassionate about every hand you are in or you'll drive yourself nuts. Winning poker is not about winnings pots, it's about maintaining discipline when you are not.

If you find that your heartrate rises when you have interest in a big pot, it's a sure sign that you are not yet a seasoned player. Tell yourself, "all pots are the same" -- AND MEAN IT! Don't worry, it's not an easy thing.

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm better than I first was, but I still have a ways to go as I'm not at the point you're describing. I seem to remember some kind of spreadsheet or something that you used to have. Do you still have that and what exactly was it?

Malmo, I found some of your previous posts/links on this thread. I'll take a look at those first.

The spreadsheet had a couple of worksheets. On was an "Outs Table" with an outs/odds/percentage table. It was intended and a tutorial to get beginners to understand how to calculate odds. It's even good for experienced players. Takes the quesswork out of the picture.

The other worksheet was the so-called "NO FOLDEM" tables. A computer simulation of every hand playing to the river against all other random hands. What if ten players called every hand to the river, "X" players: 9 players...all the way down to heads up. I've color-coded it to illustrate the relative strengths of the various starting hands at these X-handed tables. It should confirm why starting hand inventories are selected that way. It also confirms why you want callers when you've got a big hand - they win fewer pots, but in the long run they pay off much better than when you try to "chase away" the draws.

Embrace suck-outs. Applaud bad play. It will pay off large in the end.

If you want a copy of the spreadsheet, put your email addy up and I'll send it.