MARY CAIN is easily the greatest running prodigy in the US since Mary Decker Slaney

This was posted earlier, but here's her 2:03.74: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jgRe5Lar4Nk#t=6m40sHer background is in swimming:

I started running in seventh grade, during the outdoor track season. Before that my only experience with running was in our after school track program. Our boys coach, Ed Stickles, was one of the people who ran it, so he along with some other people encouraged me to try track. Before track I had been a swimmer, so during my eighth grade fall season I did varsity swimming rather than cross-country. After that I got back into track by running that year’s indoor season, and since then I have been doing all three seasons of running.

http://ny.milesplit.com/articles/72203-athlete-of-the-week-mary-cain In Bronxville girls can run varsity in the 7th and 8th grades. Stickles is now coaching her.

Sorry, i think she is becoming a prima dona, no relays? No team, all about me?

Someone should tell her parents to go to hell and stay out of it. This will not end well in my opinion.

Vcruz wrote:

i think jim ryan had just a slightly better high school career than gallagher. remind me which world record she set in high school?

About 10 years ago a couple of track historians said Kim was clearly the greatest based on her overall H.S. career. I think this was said by Walt Murphy and/or Dave Johnson. Kim was a racer, she didn't focus on splits or times and unless she was sick or fell down, she almost never lost starting her freshman year to her senior year. She won all of those races during a glory period (late 70s to early 80s). H.S. girls were running really fast (Mary Shea, Michelle Rowen, Joetta Clark, Polly Plumber, Lynn Jennings and Gina Procaccio, etc.) Kim did not set any world sr records because she was not capable of it and ran against H.S. athletes. Kim did hold the world jr record in the 800m at one time. Keep in mind that Kim was a regular H.S. athlete, she ran a regular H.S. season, competing in all of her H.S. meets, she ran lots relays and tripled at most meets. I think when she set the H.S. mile record it was in April, it was at a meet were she likely ran several events. Also, during Kim's H.S. career, the Eastern European/Soviet athletes took world-class middle distance to a level few American sr athletes could compete at.

During Kim's senior year she was possibly the best athlete at every event from the 400m to 10K, had she ran all of those events. No body knows what she could run in open 400m, but in the 1982 Penn Relays 4x4 COA; she walked down the Diane Dixon, who was a 51x 400m runner and arguably the nation’s top 400m runner. (Scary, I know!) Kim also had tremendous endurance, but lost interest in events over the 800. A little known fact, Kim was pressured into running 800/1500 double at the 1984 US Olympic trails, which I recall, she won both. Kim also did that difficult double at the 1984 Olympics coming off of an injury. Kim did not run the H.S indoor seasons, because she really didn't run XC and needed to train through the indoor season to get in shape. Kim won H.S state XC titles during what she viewed as her off season. Kim won the PA state XC title as a freshman only running 2 meets that season. PA created what was called the “Kim Gallagher” rule which says an athlete has to run a certain number of meets to compete in the state championship. When Kim was 15, she jumped into a local college 5k on a small unbanked track and set the H.S. 'indoor' record. In that race, Kim didn’t know 5k pacing, so she was to run with leaders, she did what she was told to do, but lunched into an all-out sprint the last lap. Btw, she had trained the day before and trained the day after. - Kim certainly did not accomplish some of the incredible things Jim Ryun or Mary Decker did, but at various points, she was the nation’s top athlete in multiple individual and relay events.

With that said, Mary Cain is a very good H.S. athlete, with the potential to be great, but every time a H.S. girl runs 2:03x as an underclassmen, the Decker/Gallagher comparisons start and 2:03 ends up being their H.S. PR. Expecting a girl who ran 2:03 as an underclassmen to run 2 flat the next year is like expecting a boy who ran a 4:10 mile as underclassmen to run sub-4 mile as a senior. If you use the NCAA as a model, since H.S. girls don’t have the strength to run a 4:30 mile, the H.S. girl who runs a 2 minute 800m will likely be someone with 52x 400m speed.

TrackCoach wrote:

Kim was pressured into running 800/1500 double at the 1984 US Olympic trails, which I recall, she won both.

I'm sure historians will be interested to know of this.

news to me wrote:

TrackCoach wrote:

Kim was pressured into running 800/1500 double at the 1984 US Olympic trails, which I recall, she won both.

I'm sure historians will be interested to know of this.

Perhaps pressured is too strong a term, but I do know her preference was not want to run both events becasue she wasn't sure about her fitness becuase she had only been training injury free for couple of months. I don't want to say too much to avoid controversy, but her 1500 race in the Olympics lacked the fire you usually saw from Kim. - The point of talking about the double was just to speak about the fact that Kim was very strong, not just speed.

You can blather all you want about how she was busy beating up on the few high school girls who were running back then but it doesn't change the fact that your original claim -- that she was the greatest high school runner (male or female) of all time -- is pure malarkey. Jim running was beating the best in the world in high school and set the world record in the mile while in high school. It's not even close what is more impressive.

I also found it comical that you proclaimed her the nation's top athlete in multiple relay events. How is that even possible? Give it a rest. You are wrong.

Vcruz wrote:

You can blather all you want about how she was busy beating up on the few high school girls who were running back then but it doesn't change the fact that your original claim -- that she was the greatest high school runner (male or female) of all time -- is pure malarkey. Jim running was beating the best in the world in high school and set the world record in the mile while in high school. It's not even close what is more impressive.

I also found it comical that you proclaimed her the nation's top athlete in multiple relay events. How is that even possible? Give it a rest. You are wrong.

Jim Ryun did not break the world record in HS, he set the American and HS records in the mile in 1965. His world record setting days were in 1966 and 1967 while at Kansas. Vcruz - know your facts before you start pontificating.

Best HS runners of all time 1) Ryun, 2) Gallagher, 3) Lindgren

Vcruz wrote:

You can blather all you want about how she was busy beating up on the few high school girls who were running back then but it doesn't change the fact that your original claim -- that she was the greatest high school runner (male or female) of all time -- is pure malarkey. Jim running was beating the best in the world in high school and set the world record in the mile while in high school. It's not even close what is more impressive.

I also found it comical that you proclaimed her the nation's top athlete in multiple relay events. How is that even possible? Give it a rest. You are wrong.

Back to the original topic, which is Mary Cain. As I said in one of my previous post, Mary Cain is very good, with the potential to be great and I hope she breaks all of the records and achieves everything she's capable of. ‘If’ Mary Cain continues to progress, there are some amazing possibilities. I simply took exception to the use of the word ‘greatest’; I have seen greatness as in Decker and more specifically Kim Gallagher because I personally knew her. I follow track & field on a regular basis and applaud the exploits of America’s current stars, but I also believe we should not let the passage of time diminish our appreciation for T&F history. One day soon I hope, every H.S. record Jim Ryun, Mary Decker and Kim Gallagher will be broken, but when saying who is better you will always have to compare based on the variables, namely the era in which they competed. Perhaps in time Mary Cain will accomplishment what Decker and Gallagher did, but she is not there yet and should be allowed to progress along her only timeline, without the pressure of being compared to giants. See below for a snapshot of Gallagher's running resume:

-----------------------------------------------------------

Clipped from a 2002 newspaper article. - "At age 8, Kim Gallagher ran a 5:37 mile, she went on to break the age group record in every age group, in every event she competed in. At age 16, Gallagher finished 8th in the 1980 Olympic Trials 800 meters. In 1982 Gallagher, won the World Junior Track & Field 800 meter run, setting the world junior record, which still stands 2 decades later. Gallagher’s winning time of 2:00 minutes in 1982, would have won the NCAA Championship 800 meters and would have been fast enough to make the USA’s senior national team. Gallagher's high school accomplishments are too many to mention, she literally accomplished everything that mattered to her. Gallagher won so much during her high school career that she got bored with running and for a brief period tried her hand at high jumping and long jumping. Gallagher attended the University of Arizona in 1983, where she trained with the men's team. One of Gallagher former training mates said she probably could have been a scorer for the men's cross-country team. Another former teammate stated that we all knew she was a good half miler, but she had incredible endurance and probably could have won the NCAA cross-country title as a freshman and any event on the track from the 800 meters to the 5000 meters."

- 5 USA National Titles

- Silver Medal 1984 Olympic 800m

- Bronze Medal 1988 Olympic 800m

- Lifetime PRs: 400 (52.44), 800 (1:56.91), 1500 (4:03.29)

- Gallagher is the only American male or female to win 2 Olympic medals in a distance longer than 400m.

High School:

12 PIAA State Titles

4 PIAA State Records

800 2:00.07 High School National Record/National and World Jr. Record

1000y 2:32.4 High School National Record

1500 4:16.6) High School National Record

Mile 4:36.94 High School National Record (Broken a couple weeks later by Polly Plumber)

3000 9:19.67 Sophomore Class National Record

5000 16:34.7 High School National Record

1600 Meter Relay 3:49.61 1982 Penn Relays COA

3200 Meter Relay 8:58.43 High School National Record

3200 Meter Relay 8:52.2 USATF Jr Olympic National Record

Distance Medley Relay 11:37.14 High School National Record

heli copter wrote:

Sorry, i think she is becoming a prima dona, no relays? No team, all about me?

Someone should tell her parents to go to hell and stay out of it. This will not end well in my opinion.

Good thing you opinion is worth s..t!

Is Mary Decker of Orange County, California the only American who won two distance medals at one WC/Oly meet.

Frank Shorter won gold in 1972 and silver in 1976. May be others.

doping was legal then. i know runners that used to go to mexico to buy steroids.

Historian wrote:

Frank Shorter won gold in 1972 and silver in 1976. May be others.

The quote should have said a 'track' event and I am pretty sure there are no others since this has been made several times. The U.S. has had several athletes who could have been double medalist, but we have had bad luck. Ryun, Decker, Lynn Jennings and Lagat probably could have won 2 if it had not been for circumstances.

al sal the mexicano wrote:

doping was legal then. i know runners that used to go to mexico to buy steroids.

How did it work out for them?

Thats 2 meets! And you call ur self historian!

JoeGarland wrote:

The issue of flame-outs is a common one among high schoolers. It came up yesterday in another thread that mentioned Cain and others, about Ajee Wilson and the 800. And the question was not, "You've lost the race, are you through" it was "You're Mary Cain, a phenom, but does the record of previous phenoms concern you?" She handled it well. (And Wilson was simply asked to compare her various races.) Just because she's a sophomore doesn't make questions to her or comments about her "mean-spirited". (And note that hers is the only interview of a non-winner.) When you interview a 15 yr old sophomore girl who is most likely highly disappointed that she had an off night in a highly anticipated race, it is a sophomoric mistake to bring up burnout! This is not a professional athlete! Why the need for the hardball question! How about something like Mary, you looked great in the state record 1000 last week, what was different for you tonight? Or, Samantha Nadel is looking great! What do you think it will take to beat her later in the season? What was the extreme need to ask about burnout? Because she lost? If you need an answer that badly ask the coach! If it wasn't mean spirited than it was just plain stupid! And just because in came up on threads on this board doesn't mean squat. Should the guy have asked Edward Cheserek his age? A few people on this board seem to think he is 20! NO! It would have been a tough question at a very inappropriate time. Mary might have had a bad night, but the reporter had a worse one!

The coding is screwed up on this so I'm posting it correctly:

To which

To which I respond:

By all accounts Mary Cain is a smart, serious kid and, yes, she is just a kid. She is not a child. She seems to enjoy being interviewed, and I'd rather hear her respond to a big-picture question, which she did well (and showed that she had given the matter some thought), than the all-too-frequent "how did you feel?" I thought the interview enlightening.

Asking Cheserek his age? Why not? These are 800-pound gorilla questions. They're not a big deal.

I've met neither Cain nor Cheserek. But I have met their coaches at the Rockies (NY).

Still dying to know why highly successful, well-liked (kids and parents), Hall of Fame HS coach, Jim Mitchell was fired by a sophomore who owes much success to the architect of the Bronxville program. She is not the only 2:0x runner on the team.

Roaring Borealis wrote:

Still dying to know why highly successful, well-liked (kids and parents), Hall of Fame HS coach, Jim Mitchell was fired by a sophomore who owes much success to the architect of the Bronxville program. She is not the only 2:0x runner on the team.

Sorry, correction, she is, but teamates were 2:13, 2:14, 2:18 last yr Outdoor.