All we can do is note a greater than usual level of suspicion, then move on. It's what we have done already with Bolt.
All we can do is note a greater than usual level of suspicion, then move on. It's what we have done already with Bolt.
zone defense wrote:
All we can do is note a greater than usual level of suspicion, then move on. It's what we have done already with Bolt.
No! In the Letsrun universe we can crucify him for being a fast white guy not from the US, Britain, Cananda, New Zealand or Australia. How dare he.
really? It looked easy to me. Watch around 3:47 into the race. he moves into second and taps the pacer on the elbow pushing him to move faster. I'm guessing that pacer was scheduled to lead through 2K but Sanchez moved into first before 2K. It looked very easy to me. No gasping for breath at the finish, nothing. This isn't the Olympics with an adrenaline rush we're talking about. He was waving to the crowd and having a blast, within 10 seconds of the race ending. Pretty impressive. Is he on drugs? I have no clue.
SPAIN 2010 Team for Doha
Men (10)
60m: Ángel David Rodríguez (6.60), Iván Mocholí (6.69)
400m: Santiago Ezquerro (46.83)
800m: Luis Alberto Marco (1:47.13), David Bustos (1:47.23)
1500m: Diego Ruiz (3:37.86), Álvaro Rodríguez (3:38.06)
3000m: Sergio Sánchez (7:32.41), Jesús España (7:45.60)
60m hurdles: Felipe Vivancos (7.69)
Women (4)
60m:Digna Luz Murillo (7.32)
800m: Élian Périz (2:03.52)
1500m: Natalia Rodríguez (4:06.35)
High Jump: Ruth Beitia (2.00)
printemail
Shut up Ventolin, you're a complete bore.
Back to Sanchez and the debate at hand. Personally I can't see him beating Lagat, Choge or Tariku. I don't think he medals; I don't think he has the change of pace required. I know people will throw 2:26 out there etc but I don't think he has the change of pace....
Poster Formerly Known asGoober wrote:
I do agree with ventolin on this. It is so incredibly rare for a pro to actually run their absolute maximum performance in their life. So many factors - pacing, weather, wind, time of day, competition, even mental focus - can all make very small differences for an athlete in the best shape of his life. For anyone who saw Guerrouj's win in the 2002 Wetklasse it was clear he was at least a 3:25 man at that time, maybe a 3:24high even. His pacing was uneven and he closed in a 53 to run 3:26low. He never ran a competitive 800m but that doesn't mean his body was no physically capable of a 1:42 mid. I think his 2000m and 3000m times are very close to his max capablities (within less that a second). His 5000m probably had another 5-7 seconds and probably more like 10 had he extended his career a few years to focus exclusively on the 5000m. In short, Hicham was really the greatest of all time for middle distances.
While El Guerrouj is without doubt an all-time great and arguably the greatest 1500m runner of all time, he doesn't have any form over 800m, regardless of what he might theoretically have been capable of, to warrant being hailed as the greatest "middle distance" runner of all time.
The classic middle distance events are 800m- 1 Mile, with 5000m being regarded as long distance. The 2000m and 3000m, while being in a kind of "no man's land" between middle and long distance, are non championship events and seldom run. Thus less important.
I wouldn't put Guerrouj in my top 5 "middle distance" list, and certainly his achievements are lacking below 1500m, in order for him to be regarded on the same level as Coe or Snell. In the 1500 -5000m range (whatever one wants to call this!), then of course he's at the top of the pile.
There are some ifs and buts in your comments regarding maximum potential, with which I agree, but Hicham had a pretty clear run when it came to injuries and bad luck during his career. There are many others who could have achieved a lot more had they the same breaks.
Really, when it comes to 1500 runners, I think we get two types - 800/1500 guys and the 1500/3000/5000 guys. Rarely do we do see the top guys competitively running 800-5000. I think we have to create two different categories for mid-distance. In that respect, El G clearly in the best 1500/5000 guy of all time based on performance, not potential (we could speculate all day about Geb's or Bekele's ability at 1500, but we have no performances to back it up). As for 800/1500? I couldn't say with certainty, but Coe, Snell, Cram immediately jump to mind. Again, we could speculate all day what Coe could have run for 5000 at his best, or what El G could have run for 800 at his best, or Geb at 1500, but those are moot points because they never seriously trained for those events. And as you all know, training for their non-signature events would have required significantly different training than what they usually did, and this would have reduce their performance in those main events.
Geb ran 3:31'7 indoors pushing ElG to the WR... I believe he could have been a 3:29 1500m runner outdoors, about the same time as Komen : 3:29'4
Unbump.......
It's really stupid watching everyone trying to extrapolate one dudes performance to every imaginable distance. They run what they run, and Sergio is juiced.
End thread.
come on wrote:
Seriously guys? You need to stop equating steep progression curves with cheating. You do not know anything about this athletes history with training, injuries, etc... like you do with guys like Ritz and Teg becuase you havent been following him since he was a teenager. If Chris Solinsky were to go out and run a 7:30 3k or a sub 13 5k this summer, it wouldnt be questioned here because its what most expect from him. It might not look the same to someone outside of the U.S who has no idea who Solinsky is, he'd be a 7:37 - 13:12 guy who just took a big chunk of time off of his P.R.... and he's American, so he has to be cheating.
It's not only the dopers who have been caught whom are negatively affecting the sport, it's fans like you that allow them to change to way you view it.
Haha, I thought this was kinda funny
the heck happened to this guy? 7:32 and then he disappeared.
He's "B" racer now, at that, for the Euro circuit:
3000m:
2011 7:49.45 Madrid 09/07/2011
2009 7:45.51 Zaragoza 18/07/2009
2008 7:49.84 Torino 06/06/2008
2007 7:54.95 Torino 08/06/2007
2006 8:00.80 Berlin 03/09/2006
2000 8:36.2 Gijón 01/07/2000
1999 8:37.45 Bydgoszcz 16/07/1999
5000 Metres
2012 13:30.37 Huelva 07/06/2012
2011 13:24.59 Barcelona 22/07/2011
2010 13:19.21 Avilés 17/07/2010
2009 13:21.79 Málaga 27/06/2009
2008 13:46.28 Huelva 13/06/2008
2007 13:32.43 San Sebastián 05/08/2007
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/biographies/letter=0/athcode=171546/index.html
deanouk wrote:
....
We can't have it both ways. I know that many would like to see a nice American kid, with prodigious talent at college, gradually emerge with a uniformal rate of progression through his early 20's, and emerge to defeat the Kenyans/Ethiopians at the Olympics and herald a new era of dominance. This is an idealistic fantasy which may, but more likely, will not happen. We should take what talent emerges (clean of course) and run with it (pardon the pun) ...
Oh ..... Now isn't that something.
Instead, we now see a nice American kid, with prodigious talent early on, emerge with a gradual progression, emerging to defeat the Kenyan/Ethiopians, and he's accused of doping just as much as anyone else who runs well is.
#Whodathunkit
What happened to Sergio Sanchez? That 2k he ran indoors was insane.
runinto wrote:
ventolin^2 wrote:the guy is running similar to what hicham did for the 3k
yep, you can't go from semi fast (just under 4:00 mile talent) to fastest elite at 28 years old that quickly without drugs. doesnt look good for this guy...
Galen anyone?
jonesy johnson wrote:
Galen anyone?
Read "Butthurt Troll Vendetta" by Spittlechin McPoosay from Basement Living Press.
jonesy johnson wrote:
ventolin^2 wrote:best empirical conversion to outdoors is
101/102
he ran 3'31.7i ->~ 3'29.7
note : he only had a coupla indoor 1500s that year & this is off 5k/10k training & no particular 1500 training
training specifically for it, you gotta think maybe
mid/high 3'28s
but off course, he wouda drifted out to maybe 12'50/26'40 off that
How stupid do you feel now Ventolin? Of course, the similarities between Rupp and Sanchez are striking, despite some obvious differences.
moron
that is referring to geb
learn to read idiot
ventolin^3 wrote:
jonesy johnson wrote:How stupid do you feel now Ventolin? Of course, the similarities between Rupp and Sanchez are striking, despite some obvious differences.
moron
that is referring to geb
learn to read idiot
Of course it was referring to Geb. How stupid do you feel, thinking Geb could run 3:28. What a moron.
you are all over the boards, Vento. do you have time
to hold a job as medical doctor?
jonesy johnson wrote:
ventolin^2 wrote:he runs 7'32i off a shit pace with a 2'25 finish - possibly about a 7'28/7'29 if he'd been dragged thru 2k in planned 5'00 & not 5'06
i get a rough conversion outdoors as ~ 101/102 ->
7'23.6 - 7'24.6 !!!
the guy is running similar to what hicham did for the 3k
anyone care to believe he has same natural talent as aforementioned ???
Yeah, and you think Galen can run 7:24 or something. You are a joke.
idiot
if you had a clue you'd realise the 3k list behind komen is weak & even 7'20 isn't as good as 12'37 let alone 3'26
rupp can definitely go 7'24 outdoors in his current shape & i'd even say into the 7'23s in a perfect race