My message to drug cheats (especially those from Africa)

Czechguy, just wondering, do you have ANY link whatsoever, or experience, of elite African distance runners, because I'm getting this image of you sitting in your dark basement just searching results and making trend graphs and drawing conclusions based on rare cases which you seem to apply to a whole group, and that case (Chepkemei), you are basing your conclusion on an anonymous message board poster. Anything, lived with any of them, trained with any of them, spoke to any of them?? I know several people who have been to Kenya/ Ethiopia, lived with world record athletes and sub13 men, and who told me he's swear on his life the ones he was around were clean. To imagine that they are somehow ferrying bucketloads of illegal drugs in and dosing up on them when no one else is looking is absurd, especially when so many of them who aren't the very top tier (say 12:55-13.10, 2:07-2:08 athletes have hardly any money at all. You seem to tar the east africans with the brush of the north africans, which is like saying that the russians' systematic doping means the British team is dirty. Why not follow up Renato on his offer and go out to Kenya or Ethiopia, train with some of these athletes, rather than talking drivel about something you clearly have no idea about. And please stop wasting Renato's time or drive him away from this message board, because he has voluntarily given us a window into the training and lifestyle of the world's best distance runners.

Keep it civil wrote:You're very quick to accuse this guy about talking about what he does not know. Have you lived in Africa for any length of time? I lived there for 4 years and take it from me, there are a great many individuals who never had their births registered

yes

for 6y a few decades ago

& in those days village elders in kenya made an annual trip to register - legacy of british colonial rule & administration

Stuck in any "go-slow" around town it is extremely common to see hawkers selling fancy looking (blank) birth certificates which you can buy and fill in the details for yourself.

where are you talking about ?

nairobi ? mombasa ? kisimu ?

i lived in all those places in the past - no hawkers back there in '60s selling birth-certificates

Stuck in any "go-slow" around town it is extremely common to see hawkers selling fancy looking (blank) birth certificates which you can buy and fill in the details for yourself.

where are you talking about ?

nairobi ? mombasa ? kisimu ?

i lived in all those places in the past - no hawkers back there in '60s selling birth-certificates

Why would there be in the 60's?

Kenyan runners didn't need to be younger back then. Sport wasn't as professional as it is now.

wordup wrote:

You seem to tar the east africans with the brush of the north africans, which is like saying that the russians' systematic doping means the British team is dirty.

If every decent British athlete seemed to be linked rather coincidentally to one sketchy Italian doctor or another, then I would be a but suspicious.

Italians are good at a lot of things, and one of those things is cheating and helping others to cheat at sports.

Cycling got a bit hot so they took another route, and they can get away with it because they're hidden by a large PC shield created by moronic mindless fanboys like ventolin and mobile 9.

dito! I didn't see any proof of your stories, but the examples mr Canova put forward are way more familiar to me than your blabla on statistics and yearlists.

I see that our friend Moron is confident, how clever he is. In reality, he is not as clever as he seems, and I clearly see that he may be pretty stupid, arguing against things that he misunderstood, and sometimes having no clue what's going about (Sometimes even I have no clue, what he actually meant.). I could bounce most of his "arguments" with ease, but I would have to spend the whole day here, commenting every triviality he pulls out, and then even commenting his "counterarguments" based on distorted interpretation of my replies.

If this man works with Africans - or even dopes them -, then it illustrates, what a human scum is involved in these frauds. It is no surprise for me that these guys threaten with charges. We saw it before, after all (in Rosa in 1997, in some sprinters quite recently, and if I remember, in some "phenomenal cyclists", too). They are pathological liars, who will swear by Jesus Christ, until they catch them. Remember Mr. Moron, then I will want 5-times higher compensation.

It is true that it is too bold to guess doping just by looking at the athletes' rate of development. I checked the development of convicted cheats and the doping is not everytime clear just from the times. But this is also the reason, why I have never stated that I base my suspicion on some fast improvement of stellar guys. That would be too cheap. I base my assumption on the statistical analysis of the whole track that has been developing in a completely strange way since mid 90's. We haven't seen anything like that before. I see that some people here still haven't understood, what's going on. It has no direct relationship with the emergence of Africans, but with the strange development WITHIN this group of runners. Hence I am sure that the top runners in long distances during the last decade were doped to the heels, and I really don't need to quarrel if they ran faster or slower in some year. I only briefly commented some curious development of times as a supporting evidence.

By the way, I looked at the times Mr. Tergat achieved in 2000. 27:03 in Bruxelles (1st) and 27:18 (2nd) in Sydney+12:55 (3rd), 12:58 (1st) and 13:02 (3rd) in the 5000 m. If this is a stellar season, then his season 1999 was stellar as well, with similar times (12:55 and 27:10) and one defeat out of 3 runs that I could find. If our friend Moron wants to construct something so far-fetched (like the WR breaking) on the pace of the last 3 km, then I think he could base it on the last km as well and the fantasy WR record would be even better. Tergat "coulda" run 25:40, if he "woulda" want, sure. He "shoulda" be only faster. But that's the thing we will never know.

The whole season 2000 was characterized by a very significant drop of times, sometimes even huge (5-10 km). Again, I take it only as a supporting evidence. I may not be true, but nowhere in the previous history of track I observed such a drop of times in a single year (If you find it, correct me.).

And as for our friend Rosa, I have a theory, how the only positive doping test in his group actually happened. This is a top secret record of a phone call between certain Pam and certain Federico in February 2003:

PAM: "Hi, Federico, I have heard about a stuff called EPO. Can you buy it for me, please?"

FEDERICO: "Well, Pam, but that's an evil, evil, dirty doping. You know you have a phobia of aspirine. What about EPO then?"

PAM: "Well, Federico, I know you are fighting doping night and day, together with your father. However, I am so poor and I need money."

FEDERICO: "Well, Pam, I am sorry for you. Everybody knows that we are honest, but before I buy anything, I will inform IAAF. If they catch you, everybody would know that it had nothing to do with our group."

PAM: "O.K. But please buy it quickly. I will run XCh this March."

FEDERICO: "O.K. Pam. I will ask our friend Jos. Hopefully he will help you."

PAM: "Thanks. Thanks very much, Federico. I will buy some bannanas for you!"

(Note: Federico forgot to inform IAAF, and this is why the affair happened.)

No other year in the modern era had the Olympics at the end of September in Australia. But you glossed over that, just like you did with Mexico City's altitude as the chief culprit for the blitz of world records at the 1968 Summer Olympics.

It depends on, what you mean by the "modern era". Olympics in Soul 1988 were exactly in the same time. Were they in the "old era"?

CzechGuy wrote:

It depends on, what you mean by the "modern era". Olympics in Soul 1988 were exactly in the same time. Were they in the "old era"?

More in the old era than in the modern one. The "modern era" as I see it probably began with the institution of having Worlds every other year.

believe me, i know when i'm talking to a moron with no knowledge of athletics, maths, physiology or medicine & you clearly no nothing about any of these

drivel

you post nonsense & dare to call it an "argument"

counter-argue - i'm piss on your drivel all day long

moron

where do you ger this assumption ???

no

idiot

you have posted libel

i'm going to ask the mods for your IP address & pass it onto accused parties

your statistics are drivel

where are standard deviations of the improvements of top-10 year by year from the '80s ???

what are the 95% confidence limits of the mean for these top-10 year by year ???

do the improvements of the mean from '95 fall outside the 95% confidence intervals compared to previous years ???

don't dare dignify your crap as "statistics" - it's simple averaging which a 8y ole coud do

you are completely clueless & don't follow this sport at all

tergat in brussels '99 stated beforehand he was in best shape of his life thus far & wanted to break the 10k wr

however, he got appalling wabbiting & gave up the ghost at 1/2 way & just settled for the win

as for '00, he said he was in even better shape & had spent all year peaking for 1 race & running the circuit races in middle of heavy training, just to keep some race sharpness not time chasing

he wanted to get into shape that he coud run 13'15/13'20 pace "all night long"

all this is proven by closeness of the finish in sydney

moron

i didn't state he was going to run 25'40

i said last 1km was 25'40 pace whereas the last 3k which was more representative of his ability, but still left it too late, when he shouda gone from nearer 5k rather than 3k, was 26'20 pace

moron

learn something :

STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT

Ventolin. Do you honestly think the mods will give a psychopath like you somebody's IP address?

You're a babbling fool. Babble babble, wabbit wabbit. Your knowledge of the sport is limited to plugging people's times into a computer program.

Please give it a rest.

trollism wrote:

Ventolin. Do you honestly think the mods will give a psychopath like you somebody's IP address?

well, my retarded friend, they'd give it to this guy if he asked...

i've sent him an e-mail to tell him he's being libelled & by who

Why would they give Rosa someones IP address?

Do you honestly think that he's going to take someone to court for accusing him of doping his athletes?

We all saw what happened to poor Marion when she got up there and lied. You know that's why old Lance isn't very litigous anymore.

Rosa is up there with Ferrari when it comes to shady characters in sport. It's just a bit odd that you can't see that.

idiot

you are completely clueless about basic legal matters

either he'll ask the mods to take action & if they don't, he likely will as he's got a reputation to protect

this may be the wild west in your naive eyes, but in reality it isn't

So you're asking Dr Rosa to ask Wejo and Rojo to delete Czechguy's comments?

If the thread is making you tearful, just complain about it yourself and see if the mods take any action.

You honestly think he'll take legal action? Bearing in mind his reputation is already pretty damaged, I don't think this thread is doing it too much harm.

trollism wrote:

So you're asking Dr Rosa to ask Wejo and Rojo to delete Czechguy's comments?

moron

i replied to your query about whether they woud give out an IP address

i told you that they woud give it to rosa if he asked

then i thought it's wise to inform rosa his reputation is being defamed & let him decide what he wants to do

is that simple enough for you idiot ??

Bearing in mind his reputation is already pretty damaged

only by morons attempting to do so

his reputation is damn good by the wide variety of nationalities of athlets he manages

so Mr Czechguy inform me here since you seem to have alot or reasearch done.

Do you think that Craig Mottram bob Kennedy Matt Teg or Dathan Ritzenhein Alan Webb Marrius Bakken Mark Caroll Alistair Cragg galen rupp are doping.. lets not pick on north and east africans here.. lets be fair.. you seem to be pointing fingers on one continent here.

Perhaps someone should look at the all-time performances for 800, 1500 meters, and mile sorted for each year since the mid 1960s. Check both the number of fast runners, and total fast performances (especially from runners of European heritage). For the mile and 1500, look at the number of runners appearing on the scene in the first half of the 1980s running fast times. Is it rampant drug use? Or, is it the establishment of paced races and many runners chasing (and trying to emulate) Coe, Ovett, Cram, Walker, et al? http://www.alltime-athletics.com/men.htm

Ventolin,

Are you retarded or just European? It's hard to tell sometimes after you use the word "wabbit" and think that Lagat is faster than Bekele.

Do you wear acid wash jeans?

Wear a 1980's jean jacket?

Listen to David Hasselhoff's greatest hits?

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