no one wrote:
word, fact legend, myth has it that Clayton was running so 'hard' on one run that he virtually passed out and ran into a tree. word, fact legend, myth - I don't know - but I know I heard it.
That's in his book and he also said he was running 6 minute pace at the time, but he never timed his runs so it was a matter of effort, and heat etc.
It was myself, who said that I have audio tapes of Ron Clark, talking about Clayton...
I have located the tapes, and am just getting my old cassette player out of storage...
In the meanwhile, I can say with 100 % certainty that Clark claimed that he didn't run with Clayton more than once a week, because Clayton ran too hard for Clark..
Ron clearly said that they often did a 17 miler on the roads over hills, which felt like a "Race" to Clark...
Clayton, according to Clark, definitely was an animal in training, and almost always ran hard ..... just to get it over with, according to Clark, because he claimed Clayton didn't like Running, and only did it because he was good at it...
Back to you soon...
ahhh - mystery solved - never read his book so good to hear the source. He was known via the runners 'underground international rumor mill' to be a beast in workouts ... anyway, thanks for clarification
My understanding is that Derek often ran the sunday runs with the Glenhuntly crew in the Dandenongs -17-22mls on steep hills. This was the day after his hard long run 25-27mls at around 5.30pace.
Clarkey seldom ran with Clayton during the week as Clarkey preferred running on the grass of Caulfield racecourse while Derek prefered to run on bitumen and concrete.
Clarkey generally rolled through progressively faster laps of the racetrack clicking off 5.30 down to 4.40 miles as the run progressed. He was of the opinion that Clayton tended to run too hard and fast in training. If a guy who runs 12mile progression runs in around an hour on a grass track 4 or 5 days a week reckons somebody trains fast then it would be reasonable to think they do.
Derek's injuries probably were mostly the result of his bull at a gate training methods rather than anything else. Runners of that era tell me he would often seem to be carrying an injury but would continue to run big fast mileage with no regard to the problem until it actually stopped him in his tracks.
"Clayton didn't like Running, and only did it because he was good at it..."
(???????????)
OK, there was a need for counseling there, or something, if that was the case.
"Gravedigging" lol HRE.
If I remember to, I can ask Bob Moore about that story on Clayton.I think I read it somewhere once, too.I see Moore frequently at races up here and he's full of great stories from the old days. His race total is now approaching 1600.
I believe that Moore wrote an account of Clayton's 2:08 race. He was in it and I believe Wayne Yetman was as well. I had it once, but I'm not sure if it wasn't on a computer that crashed. Great story though.
The story about Clayton running into a tree was also published in Sports Illustrated which did an article about Clayton in 1969.
Yes Clark also told me that he preferred to do most of his running at the Caulfield Horse Race Track.
This was a grass track, and Ron liked to say it was a miles and a quarter and a 100 yards around.
He and his mates would go there after work and do about 10 laps, sounding like they were accelerating tempo runs getting faster as they went along.
He said at this stage they were not doing interval workouts, they decided to just run until they stopped improving, and then consider the track.
He said they all improved their times from the Mile to the 10 K. completely off this tempo training.
In fact, he said that once he started his comeback, he did not do a track workout, not one, until after he had set his First World Record --- I'm not sure which one that was, but it should be easy to check.
And the hill runs were what Clark called a "mob jog", with
as many as 50 or so running the hills on the weekend. He
said the running was very easy except for the hills... There were 2 major ones ---- one that went up for 2 miles without a break, not too steep, and one (not sure of the length) that was so steep you couldn't go up it in a vehicle. The fitter guys would run these hills hard, and then jog around and wait for the others, and then set off running easily again until the next hill. Distances were anywhere from 18 to 25 miles.
And yes, Clark confirmed that Clayton preferred to run on the Pavement most of the time, but did come out for some of these long runs over the hills. Clark joked that it
was probably only 1 or 2 runs for the day for Clayon, except I don't think he was joking...
bump
As I recall, Clayton did a lot of interval training early in his career, as he was mainly interested in competing in the mile. But after he moved to Australia, he discovered that he had an exceptional talent for the marathon. I forget where he ran his first marathon or what his time was, but I do seem to recall that he ran very impressively after only a short period of long-distance training. From then on he was a mileage monster, and it didn't take him long to get to 2:08.
What's intriguing about Clayton is that the interval work might have actually helped him build a base for the marathon, even though most people would consider that to be the wrong way to go about it. Could it be that if you're genetically talented for the marathon, you'll improve in that event even though your training is geared for the mile?
I haven't read all the posts above, so I'm sorry if this repeats whats already been said. I had lunch with Clayton in the mid-1980s and asked him about the tree story. He replied, essentially, "Well, yes, it did happen, but what's the big deal? I was simply tired and couldn't get out of the way in time. Doesn't everyone get like that every now and then?"
The sunday runs in the Dandenongs (a heavily forested range just out of Melbourne)were also a regular part of De Castella's training and also mine.
The 2mile hill -Upper Coonara Rd. was not overly steep but Clarkey,Trevor Vincent,John Coyle and others would hammer it as did Chris Wardlaw, Deek, Jeff Coole etc in my day.
Back in Clarkey and Clayton's time the 17miler I think came back up from Belgrave either via Terrys Ave which was a doozy of a steep rd or via an adjoining equally steep forest track. They used to also belt along various sections of single track for a bit of fun.
After the long sunday morning runs in the forest Derek would go out to Caulfield in the afternoon and run a flat out 8 laps/10mls of uninterrupted running on the grass. I was told these runs were in around 51-52mins sometimes.
Living in the Past wrote:
..he discovered that he had an exceptional talent for the marathon. I forget where he ran his first marathon or what his time was, but I do seem to recall that he ran very impressively after only a short period of long-distance training. From then on he was a mileage monster, and it didn't take him long to get to 2:08.
What's intriguing about Clayton is that the interval work might have actually helped him build a base for the marathon, even though most people would consider that to be the wrong way to go about it. Could it be that if you're genetically talented for the marathon, you'll improve in that event even though your training is geared for the mile?
Think in his book, 'Run To The Top' D. Clayton's very first marathon was just outside of 3 hr., he entered it more for the experience...he felt he had to give the marathon another go just to beat 3 hr. He then found he was naturally suited for the marathon. Oddly enough , he says so himself, if he HAD beaten 3 hr. there may not have been the Derek Clayton we all know now!
Did Clayton ever race 10K or 5 miles?
I was reading this thread and started wondering what the mindset might be if any beginner read the whole thing; might they not figure that to start they should go shooting out the door for the inaugural 10 to 15-minutes and attempt to replicate Clayton's 5:30-6:00 training pace?
I can hear it now: "Gasp, gasp, gasp".
That might not be very pleasant.
He would have warmed up to that pace I would think.
I thought about the 'tree story' a bit and believe I visited that zone a time or two ... "Well, yes, it did happen, but what's the big deal? .... Doesn't everyone get like that every now and then?".
The big deal is/was that
1. it happened to him (a big name),
2. it was not only published but hit the 'underground distance running news reels' almost immediately, and
3.it was a tree,
4. and it was in an era where the 'technology' of running was being born (at least my opinion).
I think its our individual/collective propensity to lionize the lionized.
Good point. How long would it take Clayton to get up to his top speed for the maximum duration of his run?
AM & FM wrote:
Good point. How long would it take Clayton to get up to his top speed for the maximum duration of his run?
If he was like me in my 20's it would be like a 1/4 or a 1/2 mile or so to get into a rhythm. Depends how quickly he wanted to be done with his run. Funny how the harder the run was going to be how quicker I'd start (not that I'm trying to say I was as good a marathoner as Clayton was).:)