gerry lindgren

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what man you woke me up I was dreamin I was running with Gerry down a mountain trail and it was like a totally awesome thunderstorm must have done about 60 miles man and I was so tired I was havin a totally out of body experience. Gerry says he knows where this cave is man where we can shelter we had to climb up these rocks for like hours man and my shoes were so worn they were like slippin all over the place but Gerry was like a mountain goat man he hauled me over the last ledge and by this time man I was like totally hallucinatin the cave looked like the portals of hell man and I was shakin so much I thought my spine would snap then there was this huge bolt of lightnin and the most incredible crash and these rocks came tumblin down the mountain and then I woke up man has anyone got any food Ive got the munchies so bad

Jtupper, thanks so much for writing as much as you have, you are a real asset to this board. I find it odd that when a thread like this is going around Wejo turns the attention to the threads regarding EPO's use in Spain by putting quotes on the front page about how someone is making great posts by pointing fingers at the Spaniards. This is obviously the "Thread of the Month." Unlike EPO, you can't inject will power or inspiration and it's time the crazy cat's like this guy get a bit more press, it's where the consciousness of this board needs to go. Also, TomM makes logical points, however, since I've begun cycling I'd like to add that a lot of mental barriers in regards to what exactly high mileage is have been broken down. Honestly guys, if you get used to riding 4 - 6 hour rides you'll see that running for an hour and half feels like you just went outside to stretch a bit. Now, i'm not even close to running Lindgrenesque mileage, but knowing somebody else has done it makes me believe my body could eventually handle that type of stress when my mind is ready. If we could get this guy to hook up with Gabe for a bit, I wouldn't doubt we'd see Jennings run 200 mile a week average building to the '08 Olympics. That's a guy who I think has the right mentality for the thon, somebody get these guys together.

props to TomM. "just the facts, ma'am." Shane Paul you are a cock. lets keep this thread up top its great. Lindgren was a stud and this thread makes me want to go run a few dozen miles.

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[/quote] --I don't see how quibbling over specifics "misses the point". The point of this ongoing debate seems to be "did Lindgren really run as much as is claimed?" The vast majority of the posts have either been claims of spectacular feats by Lindgren, or myself and a couple of others doubting those claims. It seems kind of like any time I point something out about one of the claims that seems a little too far-fetched, somebody cries "but that's not the point. The point is that he was really good." We all know that already! What we're debating is how he got that good. If he didn't "really" run 50 miles a day, don't say he did! Asking for reliable information is not a sin.

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The the main problem is the ending quote to that second paragraph. You ask for reliable info...... jtupper gave it to you....you decide not to believe it (I have talked to him about his mileage, but you say my info is word of mouth)....thats fine.....What is bugging everyone is that you keep saying your not getting any reliable info, and you won't except any info as reliable even if Lindgren told you it. That is the comunication block. I personally wish I could give you the info you desire, but no one has ever run the mileage he did, never mind with him, and even if some how someone did that you wouldn't except what they said. Its frustrating to talk to someone like that

Your welcome to your ideas. Just give the rest of us who are trying to give you actual info some credit instead of dismissing us......it becomes annoying, and all that gets you is people like Sean or whatever that persons name is just making insults which lowers the whole thread.

The only reason these (so called) myths would exist is if he actually was the kind of person that people believed could do the myths (After meeting him I believe it)......Personally I believe all the mileage numbers (give or take 10-15 miles of random measuring), and the times he ran (which are facts that were recorded). If you want to believe the course was short or net downhill that is fine....for XC it probably was in some cases (I don't deny that). TomM obviously gives ultra-runners much more credit in there ability to compete with Lingren, never mind the regular running population, than I do (so any comparison seems really silly to me). I do wonder what Lindgren did for food on his crazy long runs....never thought of that. Its a good question.

jtupper: Thanks again for all youv'e told us, Did he ever mention or write down any clues to what he ate while doing his long runs, or how much he ate during the week?

Ive only run a hundered miles a week and I thought i have a pretty healthy diet, just wondering what doing three times as much would involve. Thanks

TomM- do you believe the stories of Ted Corbitt's training?

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If guys like Don Sheperd, Bruce Tulloh, and Al Howie managed to put in 40-60 miles a day for months as they ran across either the US or Canada, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to believe someone could run 50 miles or so a day in training.

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This thread is pretty interesting

trackhead wrote:

the only one i could find

http://www.thelocalplanet.com/Current_Issue/Cover_Story/Article.asp?ArticleID=3814

thanx for the link trackhead, great read.

Anyone know if there is truth to this story...

The 1967 NCAA cross-country championships were held at Wyoming (back in the days when you could still run a championship meet at altitude). A lot of athletes and coaches where apparently worried about the effect the altitude would have. The story goes that Lindgren believed it took a day or more for altitude to begin to effect performance so he flew into Wyoming the day of the meet, changed in the airport and went to the course and proceeded to win his second NCAA meet...back to the airport and out of Wyoming the same day.

I know that it was true that the NCAA championships were held in Laramie, but I only know a couple details from a reliable source. Aparently it was held on a small, flat golf course just west of town (not the current university course). The weeks leading up to the championships brought beautiful weather with temperatures in the mid 50's. The night before the race, however, a blizzard blew in. The race was run on a windy, cold day in about a foot of unploughed snow.

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From Dec '67 T&FN - front page picture of Lindgren leading Arnie Gelling of U of No Dakota, on a barren field with signs of a recent snow, but none underfoot... just above is a picture of Ken Moore on his way to the AAU XC title in Chicago.

From the article about the race: "Lindgren seemed most interested in testing his reaction to the 7300 foot altitude. He intentionally arrived two days before the race, saying, "Altitude affects you most after two days. I wanted to feel the worst that it could do to me-- and I guess it did." Gerry, clad in long underwear and gloves to protect himself against the 25 degree air and biting wind, appeared more tired than usual as he finished the 6.0 mile race in 30:45.6. That was 1:44.2 slower than his winning time last year on a hillier course at Lawrence, Kansas."

Notable finishers: Amby Burfoot 6th, Sam Bair 9th, Tom Donnelly 23rd. Villanova, Air Force Academy, Colorado

I sat here and read every post on this damn thread for over an hour. If this were a US court, TomM would have won easily. The only "evidence" would be from Mr. Daniels, and he doesn't even know this, its only word of mouth. PLus, the whole reason for running the 350mpw was to "prove some physiologist wrong" Did it ever occur to anyone that the mileage he was allegedy running in HS would have proven this phantom physiologist wrong PRIOR to his 350 mile weeks? So why would he have to go out and do this...plus it was WELL KNOWN that thousands of runners ran 100+mpw at the time, so how could ANYONE, especially a physiolgist at the time, make such a claim?

In terms of "evidence to prove" he did this, there is none and never will be. In terms of the probability of him actually doing this? Its as close to 0 as one can imagine. Think about this...This whole time everyone has been saying he ran 88 mile long run. Yet according to the most, and only credible source here, Mr. Daniels, the number is 66, which is nearly a marathon off! If this could have been a marathon off here, percentage wise, that turns his alleged 380 into 285. Thats 95 miles, 95. Thats a very high week by mosts standards.

Lastly, has it ever occured to anyone, anyone at all, that these "miles" may not be miles at all. If you convert all the distances to kilometers it makes MUCH more sense. At no time did Mr Daniles specify how many "miles" but simply asked what the "highest week" was.

Laslty, the amount of time given to do this has been rossly underappreciated. Here would be the breakdown:

Take a 50 mile day on 5 sessions, like he "said"

24 hours in a day:

50 miles broken up into 5 sessions would take (assuming 7:12 per mile) comes out to 6 hours flat. Plus stretching, i know he HAD to stretch, this would be 5 stretching sessions at 10 minutes piece thats about 7 hours total. Then class had to be another 2 hours a day plus an hour of HW thats 10 hours. THen there is the getting to and from class, and breaks between classes, thats 11 hours. Oh yeah, not to mention ummm eating. Yeah he would have to take in at least 8000 calories a day, which, even if he multitasked, and ate while in class sometimes and stuff, thats still at least another 3 hours, getting the food, walking to the DH or whatever. That brings us to 14 hours. So here comes the question of showering. 5 runs he HAD to take an hour for hygene. Thats 15 hours there. Assume no icing at all, nothing. Also assume he never, ever had to wait to do anything IE stand in line for food. Wait for practice to actually start. Never lifted a weight or did any ab work of any kind. Also, the changing into his running clothes and such had to be some time, going into the locker room or whatever. We are still gorssly underestimating the time it takes to get to practice, class, ect. This gives him 9 hours of sleep a day, if he falls asleep immediately. 9 hours of sleep is simply not enough time to recover from 6 hours of running each day.

I've done my best to add some logic into this thread. I'm sure many will simply ignore it, since they would rather believe in these false realities than accept the true ones.

You overestimated at almost every turn. Here, let me do the opposite.

50 hours, 5 sessions a piece, 5 hours total running (that's only 6 min mile pace - he could do it)

I barely stretch. I come home from my runs and stretch my calves for about 1 minute each. Even if he ran 5 sessions, you do not get 1 full hour of cumulative stretching time. If he's not much of a stretcher, I'd say 2-3 minutes per session, so that's 15 minutes tops.

Class and homework - sure, I'll give you 3 hours per day.

Getting to and class and the breaks between classes - one full hour? Are you on crack? If he's only in class 2 hours per day, that's only like 2 classes. Not to mention that if his classes are far apart, he probably spends the time in between them running. I say 30 minutes for getting to and from class.

Eating, getting food, etc. - 3 hours? Again, are you on crack? Let's add this up 20 minutes for breakfast, 5 minutes snack, 20 minutes for lunch, 5 minute snack, 20 minutes for dinner, 5 minute snack equals 1:15 total. I'll round up to 1:30.

Hour for showering? No. 1 shower in the morning, 10 minutes, 1 at night 10 minutes.

By my count we're at just under 10 1/2 hours total.

So now factor in 10 hours of sleep (more than you gave) and he still has 3 1/2 hours to do other things.

It's possible, at least timewise.