Nah. I was there. Jane was 100% pushed to her limit by Kosgei. Kosgei led at the bell, and Jane and she absolutely threw down on the back stretch. They were running side by side and from across the field (I was at finish line) it looked like they were fully sprinting from 300. Jane pulled away on the turn to bring it home. It wasn't at all like Jane paced Kosgei either, as Kosgei was lead ingfor 9-10 laps total, including the last 3. Plus having Kosgei there at all was obviously huge.
When they finished, Jane looked a little wobbly but fine. Meanwhile, Kosgei collapsed into Jane's arms when Jane went over for a hug. Both were spent.
Also, weather was perfect. No wind at all. None. I don't now if I've ever seen it that still at Stanford, and Stanford is famous for not having wind during the night races. Temp was 60F.
Why don't you ask coach Taylor? I was there too! Jane is in 30:30 shape. Do you think her intention was breaking Parker's record, considering this was her FIRST 10k of her life? And at 19 years old to boot? It was like a training run the first 5 miles or so, with Kosgei and her trading off, then Jane threw a fast last mile, with a 66 last lap. With pacers and the intent on approaching 30:30, she can attain that right now.
Wouldn’t the person that actually ran the race be the best source for as to how much effort she put in last night.
This must be a rage bait, 33:00 is so far ahead of 30:00 for men.
IAAF Scoring Tables has 33:00 at 1087 for women and 954 points for 30:00 for men.
1087 is about 28:30 for men.
You can argue about how accurate scoring tables are (frequency of event competition and all), but it's not a 90 second difference.
33:00 is equivalent to 28:30 for men? If you compare WRs for men and women, the difference is about 30 seconds per mile and not 45 seconds. There is also far more depth on the men’s side. In last year’s NCAA championships, 30:00 was was place.
Using world records as the barometer of equivalency doesn't work very well as there are huge outliers in women's sports. Only sixteen women have ever come within a minute of the women's world record. 153 men have come within a minute of the men's world record. This is partly due to participation causing a larger spread, but I'm sure you can think of a few other reasons for major women's outliers.
Looking at relative places is a far better way to assess equivalent performance among normal athletes.
IAAF Scoring Tables: 33:00 = 28:30
USATF Minimum: 33:20 = 28:35
NCAA 2025 # 25 32:50 = 28:11
NCAA 2025 # 50 33:27 = 28:22
World Athletics Standards: 30:20 = 27:00
World Athletics 2025 #25 30:58 = 27:20
World Athletics 2025 # 50 31:29 = 27:34
For top elites, there is around a 3.5 minute difference. For decent NCAA athletes, it's closer to 4-5 minutes. You can't apply the time difference (not even percentage) between the two world records to a pair of times 4-5 minutes slower and think that tracks.
A 33-minute female athlete will enjoy way more success than the 30-minute guy.
33:00 is equivalent to 28:30 for men? If you compare WRs for men and women, the difference is about 30 seconds per mile and not 45 seconds. There is also far more depth on the men’s side. In last year’s NCAA championships, 30:00 was was place.
Using world records as the barometer of equivalency doesn't work very well as there are huge outliers in women's sports. Only sixteen women have ever come within a minute of the women's world record. 153 men have come within a minute of the men's world record. This is partly due to participation causing a larger spread, but I'm sure you can think of a few other reasons for major women's outliers.
Looking at relative places is a far better way to assess equivalent performance among normal athletes.
IAAF Scoring Tables: 33:00 = 28:30
USATF Minimum: 33:20 = 28:35
NCAA 2025 # 25 32:50 = 28:11
NCAA 2025 # 50 33:27 = 28:22
World Athletics Standards: 30:20 = 27:00
World Athletics 2025 #25 30:58 = 27:20
World Athletics 2025 # 50 31:29 = 27:34
For top elites, there is around a 3.5 minute difference. For decent NCAA athletes, it's closer to 4-5 minutes. You can't apply the time difference (not even percentage) between the two world records to a pair of times 4-5 minutes slower and think that tracks.
A 33-minute female athlete will enjoy way more success than the 30-minute guy.
You can say all that, but 33:00 for a women is not equal to a guy running 28:30. With that proportion, Monson’s 30:03 is equivalent to 25:58 for a guy.
Yeah, a 33:00 female will have more success than 30:00 male will, but that’s only because of the massive difference in depth.
This was perhaps the best-ever family video shot from the stands in the history of track and field. Ok, cell phone not always focused, but that’s an equipment issue. 10,000 meters of discipline to never once point the phone a random direction, always easily finding the leaders after occasional checks on other runners. Incredible! Hired videographers at many meets do MUCH worse. I almost missed the absence of random useless moments of some guy raking the long jump pit to give it that infuriating, but homey feel.
Sorry. She's absolutely incredible but we aren't doing a black page for this.
1) They weren't even going all out the whole race.
2) It's a time that is exactly 2 minutes off the women's 10k world record.
All the people saying she must go pro. Why? I think being on a team, having realistic goals is great. I'd stay in the NCAA as long as I possibly could without committing financial suicide.
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
Someone needs to teach mom to turn the iphone sideways.
But I'm very glad someone filmed it as these young guys like Jonathan Gault don't believe anything is real unless there is a video of it (or course there is video of a moon landing and that's not real ;). Next time I'll give mom $20 to livestream it.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
I don't think anyone is saying she is not fast enough. But some are questioning if the timing is right when everything seems to be working for her in her present situation.
Sydney and Mu both spent a year in the NCAA when they were even more dominant. We have seen many times how the wrong training environment can derail a runner's progress.
And she is not in a situation like Cooper L where running in HS meets would be a complete joke. People just need to chill about Jane going pro and put some trust in her coach and her own sense of knowing when the time is right.
If you’re looking for the go-pro off ramp I think it’s no earlier than after 2026 XC. What’s really the point for this non-championship year? She isn’t going to get into World Ultimate or World Road Racing Champs. She can still run the 2mile at Pre Classic and perhaps European races.
Valby didn’t have to pass anyone. Hedengren did. Hedengren had no pacemaker and led more of the race than Valby did. Advantage Hedengren.
Valby passed 34 runners over the last 12.5 laps. She lapped 12 runners once and 11 runners twice. She lapped the entire field excluding Hutchins by 20:00 and passed Hutchins a few minutes later. The pacemaker probably slowed Valby down. Pacer ran 15:30 the first half; Valby ran 15:20 the second half solo while passing 34 runners, none of whom moved into lave 2.
Comparing Valby's and Hedengren's performances is like comparing Joan Benoit's Olympic victory to Sifan Hassan's. Benoit only ran 2:24:52 while Hasan ran 2:22.55. Despite the slower time, Benoit's performance was superior; she took a commanding lead at 3 miles and ran solo for the next 23, winning by about 1:30. Hassan was pushed the entire race by Assefa, Obiri, and Lokedi, and literally to the finish line by Assefa and won by a couple seconds.
Hedengren's performance was outstanding and slightly faster but was not superior to what Valby did. You might want to rewatch the video of the race.
Using world records as the barometer of equivalency doesn't work very well as there are huge outliers in women's sports. Only sixteen women have ever come within a minute of the women's world record. 153 men have come within a minute of the men's world record. This is partly due to participation causing a larger spread, but I'm sure you can think of a few other reasons for major women's outliers.
Looking at relative places is a far better way to assess equivalent performance among normal athletes.
IAAF Scoring Tables: 33:00 = 28:30
USATF Minimum: 33:20 = 28:35
NCAA 2025 # 25 32:50 = 28:11
NCAA 2025 # 50 33:27 = 28:22
World Athletics Standards: 30:20 = 27:00
World Athletics 2025 #25 30:58 = 27:20
World Athletics 2025 # 50 31:29 = 27:34
For top elites, there is around a 3.5 minute difference. For decent NCAA athletes, it's closer to 4-5 minutes. You can't apply the time difference (not even percentage) between the two world records to a pair of times 4-5 minutes slower and think that tracks.
A 33-minute female athlete will enjoy way more success than the 30-minute guy.
I think a roughly 10-11% gap is most accurate. The women's 5000m and 10000m wr is basically 11% each "off" the men's:
W 5000: 838 seconds (13:58); W 10000: 28:54 (1734s) M 5000: 755 (12:35); M 10000: 26:11 (1571)
Dividing the W time by the M time, you get: 1.1099 for 5000, 1.1037 for 10000. That is, multiply the men's time by 1.1037 to get the women's 10000m equivalent; divide the women's by 1.1037 to get men's. Hedengren ran 30:46 which is 1846 seconds --> 1846 / 1.1037 = 1672 = 27 min, 52 seconds. So she ran the equivalent of 27:52 using that calculation. That lines up better imo – she's basically 2 minutes off; a man at that would be slightly less than 2 minutes off but also running faster.
**sorry didn’t quote correctly** this was reply to Fact_checker two post back.
This seems not very nice bud. What kind of footnote will you and I be?
FWIW, it seems that Hedengren is obviously the bigger talent. But so what? Valby has also been amazing, and I hope she’s back for a future showdown. I have never understood the posters who gleefully (nastily?) root against a person. Find some happiness in your life.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
Clarified who this replies to.
**sorry didn’t quote correctly** this was reply to Fact_checker two post back.
This seems not very nice bud. What kind of footnote will you and I be?
FWIW, it seems that Hedengren is obviously the bigger talent. But so what? Valby has also been amazing, and I hope she’s back for a future showdown. I have never understood the posters who gleefully (nastily?) root against a person. Find some happiness in your life.
You should reread the thread. Never posted anything nasty and I was responding to a poster who claims that a run that was nearly 4 seconds slower is somehow greater.
Passing runners who are running slower than you is easier than having to speed up and pass a great runner in Kosgei.
Anyways, when all is said and done, PV will be a footnote compared to Hedengren.
WTF? Valby will always be an Olympian, a Bowerman winner, and the first collegiate woman to run under 15 and 31. She remains the only collegiate woman to sweep XC, the 3K and 5K indoors, and the 5k and 10k outdoors in the same academic year. Check those facts!
I think a roughly 10-11% gap is most accurate. The women's 5000m and 10000m wr is basically 11% each "off" the men's:
W 5000: 838 seconds (13:58); W 10000: 28:54 (1734s) M 5000: 755 (12:35); M 10000: 26:11 (1571)
Dividing the W time by the M time, you get: 1.1099 for 5000, 1.1037 for 10000. That is, multiply the men's time by 1.1037 to get the women's 10000m equivalent; divide the women's by 1.1037 to get men's. Hedengren ran 30:46 which is 1846 seconds --> 1846 / 1.1037 = 1672 = 27 min, 52 seconds. So she ran the equivalent of 27:52 using that calculation. That lines up better imo – she's basically 2 minutes off; a man at that would be slightly less than 2 minutes off but also running faster.
Seems roughly right. I do think the women's 10,000m records is ever-so slightly better because of the pacing situation. Cheptegei ran 5,000 from the front. Chebet got to draft off Tsegay most of the race. That's also partially why their road records are better with the help of a male pacer. That might mean more like 27:45ish had Cheptegei gotten to run closer to 26 minutes like I think he could.
33:00 is equivalent to 28:30 for men? If you compare WRs for men and women, the difference is about 30 seconds per mile and not 45 seconds. There is also far more depth on the men’s side. In last year’s NCAA championships, 30:00 was was place.
Using world records as the barometer of equivalency doesn't work very well as there are huge outliers in women's sports. Only sixteen women have ever come within a minute of the women's world record. 153 men have come within a minute of the men's world record. This is partly due to participation causing a larger spread, but I'm sure you can think of a few other reasons for major women's outliers.
Looking at relative places is a far better way to assess equivalent performance among normal athletes.
IAAF Scoring Tables: 33:00 = 28:30
USATF Minimum: 33:20 = 28:35
NCAA 2025 # 25 32:50 = 28:11
NCAA 2025 # 50 33:27 = 28:22
World Athletics Standards: 30:20 = 27:00
World Athletics 2025 #25 30:58 = 27:20
World Athletics 2025 # 50 31:29 = 27:34
For top elites, there is around a 3.5 minute difference. For decent NCAA athletes, it's closer to 4-5 minutes. You can't apply the time difference (not even percentage) between the two world records to a pair of times 4-5 minutes slower and think that tracks.
A 33-minute female athlete will enjoy way more success than the 30-minute guy.
You’re making a case for the sun rising from the west. That only 16 women have times within a minute of the WR speaks to the tremendous difference in depth between womens and mens distance running. 33:00 pace is about 2:19 for a marathon while 28:30 is sub-2:01.
I think a roughly 10-11% gap is most accurate. The women's 5000m and 10000m wr is basically 11% each "off" the men's:
W 5000: 838 seconds (13:58); W 10000: 28:54 (1734s) M 5000: 755 (12:35); M 10000: 26:11 (1571)
Dividing the W time by the M time, you get: 1.1099 for 5000, 1.1037 for 10000. That is, multiply the men's time by 1.1037 to get the women's 10000m equivalent; divide the women's by 1.1037 to get men's. Hedengren ran 30:46 which is 1846 seconds --> 1846 / 1.1037 = 1672 = 27 min, 52 seconds. So she ran the equivalent of 27:52 using that calculation. That lines up better imo – she's basically 2 minutes off; a man at that would be slightly less than 2 minutes off but also running faster.
Seems roughly right. I do think the women's 10,000m records is ever-so slightly better because of the pacing situation. Cheptegei ran 5,000 from the front. Chebet got to draft off Tsegay most of the race. That's also partially why their road records are better with the help of a male pacer. That might mean more like 27:45ish had Cheptegei gotten to run closer to 26 minutes like I think he could.
Road is a whole different ballgame...I think Chebet could run very low 13:5x, if not sub 13:50, in a BU time trial with a male pacer or at a meet like Bryan Clay if she'd be able to just go to the rail and sit. But Cheptegei probably could take a couple seconds off his 12:35 if he would be able to have male pacers the whole way as well (swapping in). That being said, I don't really think he left anything in the tank – I got the vibe that Chebet did, to ensure she'd win.
But if the conditions were "standardized" (each has a pacer of their gender who drops out at 2500) I think the 10.5% ish gap would hold
Someone needs to teach mom to turn the iphone sideways.
But I'm very glad someone filmed it as these young guys like Jonathan Gault don't believe anything is real unless there is a video of it (or course there is video of a moon landing and that's not real ;). Next time I'll give mom $20 to livestream it.
The video of Jane Hedengren's 10k was posted on the YouTube channel of Jane's mom, but from some of the commentary from the filmer during the video it's not clear if the video was shot by Jane's mom or by someone else.
In any case, at the beginning of the video the filmer makes a comment "Let me know if you're getting this stream" implying that this race was in fact live streamed.
Someone needs to teach mom to turn the iphone sideways.
But I'm very glad someone filmed it as these young guys like Jonathan Gault don't believe anything is real unless there is a video of it (or course there is video of a moon landing and that's not real ;). Next time I'll give mom $20 to livestream it.
....
Leave the mother alone because I appauld her filming the whole race. In fact Mrs. Hedengren you have OFFICIALLY been nominated to film 🎥 both of your children races the rest of the season, Please and Thank You 🙏 ☺️