Athing Mu-Nikolayev looks much better - Runs 2:00.42 for 6th at Ed Murphey Classic, Akins 2:00.76 for 8th.

There is clearly evidence that they doped. There might be evidence that they tried blood doping. Is there evidence that they used it successfully at high level of competition? If not then you don't make a point relevant to the question of Viren being given a big boost that made him very successful (2×2×Gold).

I've never met Kenny Moore.

I mean a second is a lot. Last years race was much different, it didn’t have a clear separation with two guys going after the world record. So I’m speaking to competitiveness more. I don’t think there’s any question even without the stumble, Hocker probably wasn’t getting top 3. But he might’ve been right on Gourley/Wightman or a bit ahead, which would’ve softened how dramatic it was for him to be Olympic Champ and beating Nuguse at USAs.

Maybe she chokes in big races now after all the pressure and needs to be tricked into thinking she is in a minor meet when in fact it is a big meet. It must be psychological. Just Run4Fun if that is what you love doing

The 203 was a 200 with a shut down in the last 30-50m. She jogged in.

At the end of the day we need to remember who we are talking about. Saying 6th place is wonderful is crazy. Do we remember this gal dominating everyone? It seemed one of the biggest locks in track and filed for a while that she would win, right up there with Syd. She's a different athlete right now. Not sure I know why.

Mu is getting into shape as we speak.

Would Kersee have her sandbagging to not show her cards before USAs?

No, I'm stating the obvious, which is it's pretty silly to refer to anything that happened in T&F 53 years ago as relevant to today, and I also think it's obvious to anyone who has followed her trajectory that this is not about doping anyway, it's about mental state and fitness.

Not exactly.

But he knows there is no reason she had to be running sub-2 in May-June when WCs are in late September, STILL over two months away.

Handling a runner with proven world-beating talent, who is well known to get burnt out on training, a smart coach is going to try to do something different things in March-April-May-June-July.

1. Build endurance and test it out going way over distance. Rudisha raced low-key 5ks in the early pre-season, and he wasn't remotely as good in the 1500m as Mu. Check.✅

2. Test yourself in your secondary/tertiary events. For an 800 runner working on aerobic base over the winter, that would be a 1500 or two before getting indoor dedicated 800 work. Check.✅

3. With the winter/spring work in place and some competitive tests complete, moving down in distance toward the 800, transition to 800m-specific training and competitions. This is hard to sustain for long plateau, so it's good to include races as part of the sharpening. A rust-buster time may not be fast, but the 800 takes reps to get dialed in. Stay with the program. Check. ✅

How is this so hard for people to understand?

This isn't some covert ops wizardry, people. This is just the rhythm of a normal 800m season.

With a late September championship (1.5-2 months later than "normal"), right now you need to think of what you'd normally expect to have seen from an athlete as of early May.

I think that you misunderstand 800m training.

"Building fitness" is not what is happening during the competitive season, with less than three weeks to nationals.

4:10 in May from a 400-800 woman says that the fitness is very much built.

What she needs to do now is to sharpen her speed so that a 56.x-57.x first lap is easy, and complete race-specific workouts (and races) so that a 59.x second lap is possible.

If she does that and doesn't fall down in the race, she'll be on be on the team.

A very remote possibility. She went from 2nd to 6th in the last 150m. She would have finished 6th at Oxy also in that time. That is 10 US runners faster than her THIS WEEKEND!

I can't recall her ever kicking from behind for a win. She used to have an excellent ability to front run a fast time. Now she can't do that. It would surprise me if she makes the final at USAs.

I wish her luck, but she is not looking to be a contender this year.

You are the type of person who is not capable of understanding that the issue here is that you would have been saying Virén has no chance, just as you say this about Athing, with a degree of solemnity and self assurance, while the more intelligent are seeing your comments and recognizing a rookie.

SJ is on the entry list for the W's 1 mile at London

This all might make some sense if this was a couple generations ago.

Your post treats preparation for racing the 800 as if it's a distance race. Build an endurance base over a lengthy period of time. Then add some speed workouts and a few races to sharpen up. This worked when the best 800 runners were 800/1500/mile types.

The 800 is a completely different event now, and has been for awhile. It's dominated by 800 specialists and 400/800 types. Training for the 800 has also completely changed, partly out of necessity, and partly due to the vastly superior knowledge we have about building and maintaining speed. The number of top level 800 runners who train the old way that you describe could probably be counted on the fingers and toes of someone who gets too close to their lawn mower without turning it off.

No, you are distorting (or you simply misunderstood) my post. Your post acts as if periodization is not longer relevant in the 800. Ridiculous.

I am explicitly NOT treating the 800 like a distance race here. I am treating the goal as preparing a 400-800 runner who explicitly states she doesn't enjoy 800m training.

Anyway, I don't really need to spend time educating you on training when anyone can read about contemporary 800m training online every day. Again your post acts as if we didn't all just watch Arop and Wanyoni run over-distance in April-May. Duh.

The point is that (under any training system), for an American 400/800 runner to do 4:10 in May, then 2:03 and 2:00 in her first two races (3-4 weeks from nationals) is ... good.

The secondary point is that normal seasonal progression is the reason for her to run 4:10-->2:03-->2:00 thus far, not the fairly idiotic idea of playing "rope-a-dope."

Also, "partly out of necessity" -- this says nothing. Write with meaning, would you?