Reasons why Jakob Ingebrigtsen is drug-free

Yes, I think it's more likely that a talented but constantly injury prone runner can switch his training system that enables more mileage but lower intensity, leading to less injury, and can realize his talent from that

Rather than there being a cross-border underground doping exchange program deep in the Scandinavian forests.

It doesn't help if a country is wealthy when the prosperity is unevenly distributed (USA). The effect becomes counterproductive, with an extreme disparity between the rich and the poor, leading to desperation among the poorer segments of the population (which produces crime and possibly also doped athletes when upward mobility is not achievable by other means). In stark contrast to Norway, where everyone has the opportunity to succeed in life, including through free education among more. This reflects a society with unusually small differences between the powerful and the common folk.

Testing via Anti-Doping Norway, according to the impartial ChatGPT:
"Yes, Norwegian elite athletes are tested relatively often in anti-doping controls compared to the rest of the world. Norway has one of the strictest anti-doping policies globally, and Antidoping Norge, the organization responsible for doping controls in Norway, conducts a large number of tests each year.

Some reasons for this include:
Strong focus on fair play: Norway has a strong sports culture that places great emphasis on fair competition, which is reflected in the country's anti-doping efforts.
High number of out-of-competition tests: Antidoping Norge conducts many out-of-competition tests, which is one of the most effective ways to detect doping. These tests can occur at any time and any place, making it more difficult for athletes to avoid control.
International cooperation: Norway works closely with international anti-doping organizations such as WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) and actively participates in international anti-doping programs, which can lead to Norwegian athletes being tested both nationally and internationally.

Focus on education and prevention: In addition to testing, Norway places great emphasis on educating and raising awareness among athletes to prevent doping.
Compared to many other countries, Norway has one of the highest numbers of tests per athlete, especially in sports known to be susceptible to doping. This means that Norwegian athletes often experience more frequent testing than their international competitors."

There is doping in Norwegian sport. It doesn't have to occur in the forests.

But a smart training method is though. There's a long but great thread on the norwegian method in which there's a guy called sirpoc. When he trained the old-skool way (like Jack Daniels's T pace for 20 mins), he got stuck at 18 mins 5k, and after two years using the norwegian's method (he also uses the lactate meter as well), now he's running 31 mins 10k as a 40 years old. And the norwegian's method is all about preventing burnout while maximizing training benefits through precise monitoring of the body. Just as Jakob said, "most people train too hard".

With his training method, as well as the fact that he's training from a really young age, it's not unfathomable he has got to where he is without drugs.

Aaleby,

It’s clear that you feel very strongly here (and that you have a very positive opinion of Norway).

If you had to assign a likelihood to Jakob being clean, what would it be?

80%? 90%? 100%?

This is the logic to many people who post.

For years I've been hearing about African doping which does happen and then a guy comes along and destroys the supposably doped up record and he's supposably clean? This is a clear example of bias.

Jacob is the great white hope for us white guys. It was widely believed that Europeans couldn't compete with the African and now Jacob comes along and revived the hope that we can compete.

Say anything about Jacob doping and the down votes come flooding in because we don't want to believe it. Personally I have my suspicions but I have no proof. Is there anything we can do to step up tests to catch the cheats no matter the country they are from?

Yes, and? Do you think someone who has been an active runner for a decade isn't aware that doping exists until he starts talking to the Ingebrigtsens?

He may know he is talking to experts. And in this, expert advice is very valuable.

And these experts aren't the one who prescribe the drugs, but the ones who use it?

You're trying too hard. You don't think dopers like Jose Canseco and Armstrong weren't expert on doping?

The point is that the runner in question could have learned about training and competing from the Ingebrigtsens but that isn't necessarily all he would have learned. That is the nature of the sport now.

You know nothing about the nature of the sport.

Up to 1 in 2 championship athletes who admitted to doping in a confidential survey says otherwise.

I think Andreas Almgren is fully aware that doping exists, considering he lost out on a spot in the 5000m finals at the previous worlds by finishing 9th behind Katir and Oumaiz, who are both banned.

No it doesn't. If anything it says that 50% of those who answered the survey are clean.

No, up to 1 in 2 championship athletes did not admit to doping in a confidential report. Because:

1. It’s not confidential -it was freed a long time ago.

2. The researchers don’t know how many athletes admitted to doping -their yes in the question survey is placed in the same yes box as the answer on an another unproblematic question, so the researchers don’t know exactly how many answered yes on doping, and how many answered yes on the other unrelated question. But they tried to calculate and estimate the percentage…

3. The answers in the survey are more than 11 years old. We don’t know if they apply to nowadays athletes.

4. The researchers raw estimates (based on estimates of the answers) were that 43% admitted to doping in the past year. But since some of the athletes seemed to answer to quick (to be serious / trustworthy) the researchers cut down the estimate to “at least 30%”, meaning 1 in 3, not 1 in 2…

5. A large bulk of the athletes must have lied in the survey (despite secured anonymity) when they were asked about if they had been doping intentionally the last year. So the researchers have their estimates (based on experience) how they can compensate for that. But this is debated, and I personally think the margin for error is huge.

So you shouldn’t present this surveys as a fact, but debated estimates done by a group of researchers who believes in doing surveys in this way…

That says the same thing but you don't get that. 1 in 2 is clean (or alternatively doped) - how reassuring.

This flannel has been rebutted on other threads so I'm not going to bother going over it again. But - sorry - it's rubbish in which you are trying to minimise what the survey has indicated about the seriousness of doping in the sport. You do that because you couldn't be a fan if you accepted it as truly indicative.

Maybe Jakob would improve by only a small (but significant) amount if he started doping. Say 1 second in the 1500m.

Because his genetics and 15+ years of double threshold training (without doping) may very well have brought him close to optimal red blood cell concentration, past which point the marginal benefit of more red blood cells (via EPO or blood doping) will help him less and less.

Just because a guy like Mo Katir might drop about 8 seconds in the 1500m by doping does not mean a guy like Jakob would have a similar 8 second drop.

You're just hopeful that doping would make little difference to Jakob. It might - but only because quite a few here think he is doping already. But there's nothing to suggest that if he were clean he would gain very little, unlike Katir. He isn't a different species. They are both elite highly-trained athletes. Even if Jakob didn't make the same gains everything that is known about doping indicates he, too, would enjoy substantial improvements. The only person that would agree with you is a commenter here who basically argues that doping doesn't help distance runners. Yet they dope.