He means that LetsRun are prejudiced against North Africans. Just because a European North African gets popped every other week (another Spanish Moroccan busted yesterday) we have no right to suspect superhuman performances from them that come out of the blue. Just because of Makhaloufi, Ramzi, and many more, we are racist if we think a North African soccer player who runs 1:41 every week, powering through the last 100m, isn't clean. Just because Morocco and Algeria are two out of a handful of 'most likely to dope' nations on WADA's rareafied list, doesn't mean a North African is any more likely to dope than an Australian or a Brit. Just because the biggest track fan in Morocco (Passant) posts here, defending dopers daily, and who still idolizes Ramzi and Katir, it says nothing about North Africans having a manifestly different attitude and culture regarding doping than most of the West.
Not saying Sedjati (or any of the current 800m guys) are clean, just saying their times aren't as impressive when you account for 'the shoes.' Probably quickens 1-1.5 seconds to their times.
To me, the current crop is really just equivalent to the high 1:42/low 1:43 times of yesteryear.
I wonder about that. How fast do you believe jakob's 3.26.7,and also faith kipyagon's 3.49,and jess hull's 3.50.8 would have been in a 90s equivelent? no fast shoes,and older tracks.
Again, I'm no expert but the consensus for the 1500 is 3 seconds for men; 3.5-4 seconds for the women.
I think Faith is still an insanely incredible talent, but vs a (likely doped-up) 2015 Genzebe Dibaba in super shoes, I would imagine she'd still be a second behind her.
Seems to be about roughly .75-1 second benefit per lap. Not a huge difference for mid-pack runners but noticeable for thelite.
This is the answer. Both. Even Cram who doesn't mention drugs was saying it last night about the shoes and the track.
I watched a slo-mo of Hull foot-strike last night and there seemed to be a bounce in the track.
I'm all for these fast times.
You have to remember the majority of people watching don't have any idea if someone's performance is suspicious.
They're told it's a new record and they think it's fantastic. Has to be a good thing overall.
I would def not discount doping; to do so would be naive.
I just think people are not considering the ever-improving shoe technology and track surfaces. Tiny, micro improvements over time add up. By the 2030, I wouldn't be surprised to see the first sub-1:40. Who knows what advancements in tech will have happened by then.
All things being equal (shoes, track surfaces, etc) I would place Rudisha, Kipketer, Coe, Amos, et al a good full second ahead of the current crop of 800m.
Again, I'm no expert but the consensus for the 1500 is 3 seconds for men; 3.5-4 seconds for the women.
I think Faith is still an insanely incredible talent, but vs a (likely doped-up) 2015 Genzebe Dibaba in super shoes, I would imagine she'd still be a second behind her.
Seems to be about roughly .75-1 second benefit per lap. Not a huge difference for mid-pack runners but noticeable for thelite.
That’s not the consensus at all. It is highly dependent on the pace. The men’s 5000 and women’s 1500 are run at similar pace and it seems .5-.7 per lap. For a race as fast as the men’s 1500 it seems more like .2-.3 per lap. 3:28-3:29 guys seem like 3:29-3:30 guys in past eras. Throw in how much better pacing has gotten with wavelights. In the 800, I’m not buying the spikes as much as their impact in training and somewhat of a perfect storm of health and prime (and for some doping). Look how healthy the men’s 800m is right now. Nobody of note is injured besides Moula. Whereas we had injuries/winter injuries for scores of 1500 guys - Gourley, Hoare, Wightman, Jakob, Tim, Habz, Laros.
Again, I'm no expert but the consensus for the 1500 is 3 seconds for men; 3.5-4 seconds for the women.
I think Faith is still an insanely incredible talent, but vs a (likely doped-up) 2015 Genzebe Dibaba in super shoes, I would imagine she'd still be a second behind her.
Seems to be about roughly .75-1 second benefit per lap. Not a huge difference for mid-pack runners but noticeable for thelite.
That’s not the consensus at all. It is highly dependent on the pace. The men’s 5000 and women’s 1500 are run at similar pace and it seems .5-.7 per lap. For a race as fast as the men’s 1500 it seems more like .2-.3 per lap. 3:28-3:29 guys seem like 3:29-3:30 guys in past eras. Throw in how much better pacing has gotten with wavelights. In the 800, I’m not buying the spikes as much as their impact in training and somewhat of a perfect storm of health and prime (and for some doping). Look how healthy the men’s 800m is right now. Nobody of note is injured besides Moula. Whereas we had injuries/winter injuries for scores of 1500 guys - Gourley, Hoare, Wightman, Jakob, Tim, Habz, Laros.
You bring up good points. The 'shoes' apparently do prevent injuries more.
He means that LetsRun are prejudiced against North Africans. Just because a European North African gets popped every other week (another Spanish Moroccan busted yesterday) we have no right to suspect superhuman performances from them that come out of the blue. Just because of Makhaloufi, Ramzi, and many more, we are racist if we think a North African soccer player who runs 1:41 every week, powering through the last 100m, isn't clean. Just because Morocco and Algeria are two out of a handful of 'most likely to dope' nations on WADA's rareafied list, doesn't mean a North African is any more likely to dope than an Australian or a Brit. Just because the biggest track fan in Morocco (Passant) posts here, defending dopers daily, and who still idolizes Ramzi and Katir, it says nothing about North Africans having a manifestly different attitude and culture regarding doping than most of the West.
How about to mean your own big elephant in the room:
The Longer the distances are the bigger they are spoiled.
Speaking of genetics:
- the big part of the success of Jakob is his stable, favorable environment ans starting training at young age.
The biggest trouble for the persons like you will be getting new Zlatopek level runners. Jakob can't run for the "white" forever and he is the only success in his family.
This is a big trouble and worry about for you in the future.
Look at this example of Italian that won the EURO 5000m/10.000m titles.
Nadia Battocletti (born 12 April 2000) is an Italian female middle- and long-distance runner European champion of the 5000 m and 10000 m in Roma 2024. As of July 2024, at the age of 24, she has won 11 national tiles at the se...
See how she look with her name Nadia? and a skin less prone to perspiration?
In Morocco we have a lot of this type of skin/shape ... Algeria have more base runners of shorter middle distances (that's just a theory from me but the example of Attaoui shows that its only a question of motivation)
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
Again, I'm no expert but the consensus for the 1500 is 3 seconds for men; 3.5-4 seconds for the women.
I think Faith is still an insanely incredible talent, but vs a (likely doped-up) 2015 Genzebe Dibaba in super shoes, I would imagine she'd still be a second behind her.
Seems to be about roughly .75-1 second benefit per lap. Not a huge difference for mid-pack runners but noticeable for thelite.
That’s not the consensus at all. It is highly dependent on the pace. The men’s 5000 and women’s 1500 are run at similar pace and it seems .5-.7 per lap. For a race as fast as the men’s 1500 it seems more like .2-.3 per lap. 3:28-3:29 guys seem like 3:29-3:30 guys in past eras. Throw in how much better pacing has gotten with wavelights. In the 800, I’m not buying the spikes as much as their impact in training and somewhat of a perfect storm of health and prime (and for some doping). Look how healthy the men’s 800m is right now. Nobody of note is injured besides Moula. Whereas we had injuries/winter injuries for scores of 1500 guys - Gourley, Hoare, Wightman, Jakob, Tim, Habz, Laros.
I suppose if you take jakobs super spikes away,and allow him and his competition to run on a '90's track,he might run 3.29?
You don't have to have the best drugs, if you are not properly tested. This the "advantage" of all these Third World countries. You can literally point your finger at regions where doping is out of control.
Attaoui of 'Spain' (Moroccan name) with a 2 second pb. They say Americans have the best drugs, I'd like to see what they have in north Africa
You don't have to have the best drugs, if you are not properly tested. This the "advantage" of all these Third World countries. You can literally point your finger at regions where doping is out of control.
I suppose if you take jakobs super spikes away,and allow him and his competition to run on a '90's track,he might run 3.29?
As I said I think it would be around 1s. I believe he is a sub-3:28 talent in old spikes same as prime Tim. These are historic guys. I don’t think 90s track is much of a difference. The pacing might but they got it right sometimes.
I suppose if you take jakobs super spikes away,and allow him and his competition to run on a '90's track,he might run 3.29?
As I said I think it would be around 1s. I believe he is a sub-3:28 talent in old spikes same as prime Tim. These are historic guys. I don’t think 90s track is much of a difference. The pacing might but they got it right sometimes.
At most 3:28 Mid because of the fast track Monaco.
He ran 3:27.14 in Poland. There are many fast tracks and were in the 90s too.
No idea about the tracks in the 90s by the one that had great historic reputation are Monaco and the new reconstructed tracks. Elaine Thompson running 10.61/10:54 in Tokyo/Eugene is a boost from the track
Supershoes gives 2 seconds boost in the 1500m.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
