One last comment before I go to bed. Tell me if my logic is off here.
So it seems like many on her believe all Kenyans dope? But this guy somehow destroys the best marthoners in the world by nearly 3 minutes over 12.2 k? Why in the hell aren't his fellow dopers on the same stuff he is on?
That logic seems to indicate to me either a) not all Kenyans are dope or b) Kiptum is a special, special marathon talent has to be true. One of those has to be true, right?
"Zero proof" of doping? When Kenya incurred 40% of total doping positives last year? Head in the sand again.
I sincerely hope you don't work in any field related to science or law enforcement/the court system...even if 99% of Kenyans were doping (which I'm sure is what you believe in your little wonderland of pessimism and paranoia*), that would not constitute actual concrete evidence that any one given athlete is dirty. It would justify closer scrutiny, yes, but to assert that you have "proof" of their guilt based on national origin alone proves nothing other than prejudice. Unfortunately, it's easy to fall prey to the representativeness heuristic, but that's just intellectual laziness and cognitive bias for you.
*a wonderland where Jakob Ingebrigtsen, Laura Muir, and most other "Western" athletes (and closer to home, "American-born") are innocent until proven guilty. We all know what the terms in quotations are code for.
You think you will find a clean athlete in a culture of doping - who also happens to be far and away the best? Good luck to you.
One last comment before I go to bed. Tell me if my logic is off here.
So it seems like many on her believe all Kenyans dope? But this guy somehow destroys the best marthoners in the world by nearly 3 minutes over 12.2 k? Why in the hell aren't his fellow dopers on the same stuff he is on?
That logic seems to indicate to me either a) not all Kenyans are dope or b) Kiptum is a special, special marathon talent has to be true. One of those has to be true, right?
He may be a special, special marathon talent in the same way Marita Koch was a special, special talent in the 400m, Kratchilova in the 800m, Wang Junxia in the 3000m etc.
Yeah, he's the best in a region of 100 million where every healthy talented young sporting person goes into distance running and dopes to win prize money.
Exactly 10 years ago you were saying that 2:03 was the limit of human potential in the marathon, and that anyone who believed there would be a sub 2 hour marathon before the year 2080 was 'dumb'. This guy appears to be in sub 2 hour shape at age 23 and having only recently debuted in the marathon. He's also self-coached. What will he be running in another 5 years time when he is at his marathon peak and got a decent coach? 1:55? Sub 1:50? More likely there is a new peptide out there that is as effective as EPO, and we're going to see others running crazy times in the next few years until testing catches up. And however crazy this run was, still not as crazy as a 38 year old who may be 42 smashing his own world record 20 years after he plateaued in the 5K.
YUP! There should be testing for the top athletes just before and after the race - filmed and documented thoroughly! There’s too much money and stake now not to do this. Top competitors have been caught and the dishonesty is an industry. I don’t give a damn about ethnicity, nationality or gender - Everyone who’s eligible for a cash prize payout gets tested before and after multiple times - OR DONT F’ING RUN!
In April 2022, Kenyan marathon runner Peres Jepchirchir made history by winning the Boston Marathon, adding to her previous victories at the New York Maratho...
One last comment before I go to bed. Tell me if my logic is off here.
So it seems like many on her believe all Kenyans dope? But this guy somehow destroys the best marthoners in the world by nearly 3 minutes over 12.2 k? Why in the hell aren't his fellow dopers on the same stuff he is on?
That logic seems to indicate to me either a) not all Kenyans are dope or b) Kiptum is a special, special marathon talent has to be true. One of those has to be true, right?
He may be a special, special marathon talent in the same way Marita Koch was a special, special talent in the 400m, Kratchilova in the 800m, Wang Junxia in the 3000m etc.
Yeah, he's the best in a region of 100 million where every healthy talented young sporting person goes into distance running and dopes to win prize money.
Exactly 10 years ago you were saying that 2:03 was the limit of human potential in the marathon, and that anyone who believed there would be a sub 2 hour marathon before the year 2080 was 'dumb'. This guy appears to be in sub 2 hour shape at age 23 and having only recently debuted in the marathon. He's also self-coached. What will he be running in another 5 years time when he is at his marathon peak and got a decent coach? 1:55? Sub 1:50? More likely there is a new peptide out there that is as effective as EPO, and we're going to see others running crazy times in the next few years until testing catches up. And however crazy this run was, still not as crazy as a 38 year old who may be 42 smashing his own world record 20 years after he plateaued in the 5K.
Imagine thinking naive blindness in the 80s is equivalent.
Not a shocker that you then go to a “vibes” call from over a decade ago to launch into “there must be a new peptide.”
The sport develops. People train younger than ever, and smarter than ever while younger. Greater access than there’s ever been to info, across the world. If you can’t comprehend this, that’s your problem.
If he gets caught doping, new conversation. But for now.. he’s doing something incredible and it should be appreciated.
i wrote back in 2008 that a bekele could go sub 2 hours. and laid out how to run an artificial 2 hours with the guys that are out there. which they did, mega drafting was the key, plus perfect conditions.
Proof please? What was the name of thread? Did you post under this name? I'd love to see it.
Under Figo track and field news forum. If I recall. I will search for it, haven't used the site in many years.
Exactly 10 years ago you were saying that 2:03 was the limit of human potential in the marathon, and that anyone who believed there would be a sub 2 hour marathon before the year 2080 was 'dumb'. This guy appears to be in sub 2 hour shape at age 23 and having only recently debuted in the marathon. He's also self-coached. What will he be running in another 5 years time when he is at his marathon peak and got a decent coach? 1:55? Sub 1:50? More likely there is a new peptide out there that is as effective as EPO, and we're going to see others running crazy times in the next few years until testing catches up. And however crazy this run was, still not as crazy as a 38 year old who may be 42 smashing his own world record 20 years after he plateaued in the 5K.
So a guy that is self coached knows how to dope so well, and beat all the testers, that he outruns all the other dopers? Really? Nothing to do with talent? Just a guy getting his PEDS on the street corner?
One last comment before I go to bed. Tell me if my logic is off here.
So it seems like many on her believe all Kenyans dope? But this guy somehow destroys the best marthoners in the world by nearly 3 minutes over 12.2 k? Why in the hell aren't his fellow dopers on the same stuff he is on?
That logic seems to indicate to me either a) not all Kenyans are dope or b) Kiptum is a special, special marathon talent has to be true. One of those has to be true, right?
Your two posts here are right on. Somehow all the other dopers with better coaches cannot evade the testers nor find better PEDS. Just him...he must be a scientist too.
One last comment before I go to bed. Tell me if my logic is off here.
So it seems like many on her believe all Kenyans dope? But this guy somehow destroys the best marthoners in the world by nearly 3 minutes over 12.2 k? Why in the hell aren't his fellow dopers on the same stuff he is on?
That logic seems to indicate to me either a) not all Kenyans are dope or b) Kiptum is a special, special marathon talent has to be true. One of those has to be true, right?
He may be a special, special marathon talent in the same way Marita Koch was a special, special talent in the 400m, Kratchilova in the 800m, Wang Junxia in the 3000m etc.
Yeah, he's the best in a region of 100 million where every healthy talented young sporting person goes into distance running and dopes to win prize money.
Exactly 10 years ago you were saying that 2:03 was the limit of human potential in the marathon, and that anyone who believed there would be a sub 2 hour marathon before the year 2080 was 'dumb'. This guy appears to be in sub 2 hour shape at age 23 and having only recently debuted in the marathon. He's also self-coached. What will he be running in another 5 years time when he is at his marathon peak and got a decent coach? 1:55? Sub 1:50? More likely there is a new peptide out there that is as effective as EPO, and we're going to see others running crazy times in the next few years until testing catches up. And however crazy this run was, still not as crazy as a 38 year old who may be 42 smashing his own world record 20 years after he plateaued in the 5K.
So you must also certainly think Jakob is doped too right? I mean he routinely kicks the ass of all the East Africans who are, in your and Armstronglivs viewpoint, all doped to the gills.
Right? It's literally impossible to not believe that based on your views of the advantages of PEDs and the success of Jakob. I mean maybe you or Armstronglivs has actually displayed a shred of Integrity / consistency / honesty and accused him of also being doped? Or..... Fill me in here.
[ and please don't fall back on " doping culture " because
A] there clearly has been a doping culture in European endurance sports ( yes mainly cycling ) for a very long time. And
B] that is beside the point because you also both clearly believe a talented doped athlete will always beat a talented clean athlete.]
One last comment before I go to bed. Tell me if my logic is off here.
So it seems like many on her believe all Kenyans dope? But this guy somehow destroys the best marthoners in the world by nearly 3 minutes over 12.2 k? Why in the hell aren't his fellow dopers on the same stuff he is on?
That logic seems to indicate to me either a) not all Kenyans are dope or b) Kiptum is a special, special marathon talent has to be true. One of those has to be true, right?
Special talents also dope.
Please list for me the, in your "humble" [ lol] estimation, the number one all time clean runner in each male track and field event. This should be hilarious on many levels.
Please list for me the, in your "humble" [ lol] estimation, the number one all time clean runner in each male track and field event. This should be hilarious on many levels.
It is obvious from what I have said that any top athlete now could be doping. For that reason it isn't possible to list those we know would be clean in at least the last 30-40 years. It would only be guesswork.
He may be a special, special marathon talent in the same way Marita Koch was a special, special talent in the 400m, Kratchilova in the 800m, Wang Junxia in the 3000m etc.
Yeah, he's the best in a region of 100 million where every healthy talented young sporting person goes into distance running and dopes to win prize money.
Exactly 10 years ago you were saying that 2:03 was the limit of human potential in the marathon, and that anyone who believed there would be a sub 2 hour marathon before the year 2080 was 'dumb'. This guy appears to be in sub 2 hour shape at age 23 and having only recently debuted in the marathon. He's also self-coached. What will he be running in another 5 years time when he is at his marathon peak and got a decent coach? 1:55? Sub 1:50? More likely there is a new peptide out there that is as effective as EPO, and we're going to see others running crazy times in the next few years until testing catches up. And however crazy this run was, still not as crazy as a 38 year old who may be 42 smashing his own world record 20 years after he plateaued in the 5K.
So you must also certainly think Jakob is doped too right? I mean he routinely kicks the ass of all the East Africans who are, in your and Armstronglivs viewpoint, all doped to the gills.
Right? It's literally impossible to not believe that based on your views of the advantages of PEDs and the success of Jakob. I mean maybe you or Armstronglivs has actually displayed a shred of Integrity / consistency / honesty and accused him of also being doped? Or..... Fill me in here.
[ and please don't fall back on " doping culture " because
A] there clearly has been a doping culture in European endurance sports ( yes mainly cycling ) for a very long time. And
B] that is beside the point because you also both clearly believe a talented doped athlete will always beat a talented clean athlete.]
I have said that any top athlete now could be doping. But with some athletes it's as obvious as a klaxon. Kiptum is such a one. His performances are off the planet and he comes from a sporting culture absolutely rife with doping. It's an easy call.
He may be a special, special marathon talent in the same way Marita Koch was a special, special talent in the 400m, Kratchilova in the 800m, Wang Junxia in the 3000m etc.
Yeah, he's the best in a region of 100 million where every healthy talented young sporting person goes into distance running and dopes to win prize money.
Exactly 10 years ago you were saying that 2:03 was the limit of human potential in the marathon, and that anyone who believed there would be a sub 2 hour marathon before the year 2080 was 'dumb'. This guy appears to be in sub 2 hour shape at age 23 and having only recently debuted in the marathon. He's also self-coached. What will he be running in another 5 years time when he is at his marathon peak and got a decent coach? 1:55? Sub 1:50? More likely there is a new peptide out there that is as effective as EPO, and we're going to see others running crazy times in the next few years until testing catches up. And however crazy this run was, still not as crazy as a 38 year old who may be 42 smashing his own world record 20 years after he plateaued in the 5K.
Imagine thinking naive blindness in the 80s is equivalent.
Not a shocker that you then go to a “vibes” call from over a decade ago to launch into “there must be a new peptide.”
The sport develops. People train younger than ever, and smarter than ever while younger. Greater access than there’s ever been to info, across the world. If you can’t comprehend this, that’s your problem.
If he gets caught doping, new conversation. But for now.. he’s doing something incredible and it should be appreciated.
Running is not an intellectual activity. Training for running consists essentially of - running. There isn't a lot of room for getting "smarter". But the physical improvements made by doping will certainly make a difference. Like enabling athletes to train harder.
YUP! There should be testing for the top athletes just before and after the race - filmed and documented thoroughly! There’s too much money and stake now not to do this. Top competitors have been caught and the dishonesty is an industry. I don’t give a damn about ethnicity, nationality or gender - Everyone who’s eligible for a cash prize payout gets tested before and after multiple times - OR DONT F’ING RUN!
Most athletes dope during their training, not in competition.
So you must also certainly think Jakob is doped too right? I mean he routinely kicks the ass of all the East Africans who are, in your and Armstronglivs viewpoint, all doped to the gills.
Right? It's literally impossible to not believe that based on your views of the advantages of PEDs and the success of Jakob. I mean maybe you or Armstronglivs has actually displayed a shred of Integrity / consistency / honesty and accused him of also being doped? Or..... Fill me in here.
[ and please don't fall back on " doping culture " because
A] there clearly has been a doping culture in European endurance sports ( yes mainly cycling ) for a very long time. And
B] that is beside the point because you also both clearly believe a talented doped athlete will always beat a talented clean athlete.]
I have said that any top athlete now could be doping. But with some athletes it's as obvious as a klaxon. Kiptum is such a one. His performances are off the planet and he comes from a sporting culture absolutely rife with doping. It's an easy call.
Thx for being on [ repeating the] record.
Without Super Shoes kept Kiptum would be running 2:03. That is nearly indisputable. You can't ignore that and pretend that some of these unfathomable times are not due to the new shoe tech.
Your "could be doping" makes it sound like you have a convenient benefit of the doubt viewpoint for Jakob. Kind of what I figured [but even more so of course with coevett].
Again, since you clearly believe that
A) all top EastAfrican runners are doping, and
B] that Peds give a huge advantage so that
C] it is impossible that any clean talented athlete could beat a doped talented athlete, and
D] since Jakob regularly makes mincemeat out of all of the best East African 1500 M and 5,000 m runners
Why not be just consistent and clear and just state the following: " I 100% believe Jakob Ingebrigtsen is a cheater.
That would be the only consistent statement to make based on your other beliefs. Putting any wiggle room in there for him would be clearly biased/inconsistent.