Nonsense. He was unbeaten in both 79 and 81 (over all distances) and World ranked #1 for 1500m (and 800m) in both those seasons. Ovett chose not to run in the 79 Dream Mile, famously saying that it would be "a hollow victory for whoever won". Ovett also stopped Coe running in the 81 Dream mile, promising he would run the Golden Mile in Brussels the following month. Surprise, surprise, he pulled out of that race a few days before. So, not Coe's fault Ovett ducked him. Coe beat all the rest of the world's top milers in 2 races in 79 (both world records) and in 3 races in 81 (2 world records and a near miss by 0.59secs).
Coe was as dominant as any miler had been during those 2 years despite running very few races over the distance. He was arguably as dominant in 80 and 84 too, winning both the top 2 races in each year (Olympics and Zurich) convincingly. However, he was not ranked #1 those 2 seasons by T&FN due to the small number of races he ran over the distance. Running a series of victories over a long season is seen by some as more important than winning the only race that everyone aims for and wants to win!
Morceli was certainly more dominant over the course of a season in more seasons than Coe, but that is helped by the fact he was predominantly a 1500 specialist, whereas Coe was a combined 800/1500 runner. In terms of Olympic medals and number of world records , Coe has the upper hand.
Calling it nonsense doesn't change the fact.
Morceli was the undisputed king of the Mile in 91, 93 and 95. He run full seasons, was unbeaten, clearly dominated also the ranking lists in both 1500m and Mile and he destroyed the fields of all the best at the world champs. In 90 and 94 he was not as dominant, but still clearly the world no. 1. In 92 and 96 he was not dominant but still was able to set a wr and to win at the Olympics. Even in 97 he run almost as fast in the Mile as Coe's 2nd wr.
Coe without any doubt was not dominant in 80 and 84, even you want it to be like that. But he wasn't.
4th fastest in 80, 2nd fastest in 84. No serious Mile races. Ovett was in great shape in 80. The fastest of 84 went undefeated in a long season, but didn't compete at the Olympics. Impossible to call Coe dominant in these two years.
In 79 Coe was 0.08 seconds faster than Ovett in the 1500 (0.62 in the Mile), and Ovett just jogged in these years. They didn't race each other, so also here it's impossible to say Coe was dominant. In 81, in his best Mile-shape in the season, Coe probably was clearly better than Ovett. But since they havn't raced and Ovett has had an full season, was unbeaten and has run several super fast times, it's also strange to say Coe dominated the season. The best of Coe was better than the best of Ovett, yes.
And, no, even if you want it like this, Coe can't be ranked ahead of Morceli in an all-time ranking for the 1500m and Mile. The facts clearly say something different (Morceli's 25th fastest 1500 is faster than Coe's 2nd fastest, and so on...).
Coe throughout his career raced over both 800 and 1500/Mile, Morceli mostly concentrated on the 1500 (but sparingly also has had great success on longer events).
Coe clearly is the best complete middle distance runner in history. Looking only on the 1500/Mile, he is way behind Morceli and El Guerrouj. This is obvious and not debatable for objective observers.
You obviously weren't around in 81 or haven't read many books on the era.
For a start, I've already outlined why they didn't face each other in 81; Ovett prevented Coe running in the Dream Mile in Oslo 81 through his manager and the Chief meet director in the UK, Andy Norman. It is documented in Pat Butcher's book, 'The Perfect Distance', where Norman admitted to it. Perhaps you should take a look. At the time of Oslo, Norman promised Coe that Ovett would run against him in Brussels instead. A few days before the race he pulled out and runs a meaningless, low key 800m in Norway instead. It is not Coe's fault that Ovett purposely avoided him twice.
Secondly, you are mistaken to say Ovett had an 'unbeaten' season in 81. He was beaten over 1500m in Oslo by Byers and then over a mile by Maree in Rieti, in a super fast 3:48.
Dominance is not only running multiple fast times over a season. It is as much to do with winning the big races and how you win them. Winning 2 successive Olympic golds over 1500m is unprecedented. In both 80 and 84 Coe was doubling up, which clearly means he's not going to run as many 800's in a season as pure 800 specialists, nor as many 1500's as pure milers. But, I'm pretty sure both who were ranked #1 in those two seasons would have swapped that for Coe's Olympic golds.
Merit rankings are based on running lots of races over a season and marking up lots of fast times. However, yes, I agree that Morceli won several World Champs golds and broke 3 world records over 1500/mile in the early 90's and was clearly the dominant 1500m runner from 90 to 95. His margin of dominance (in a relatively weak era) over his peers was also possibly greater than Coe's (who had the likes of Cram and Ovett to compete against) had been, in their respective careers. But equally as impressive in demonstarting 'dominance' of and event, were Coe's convincing Olympic wins in 80 and 84 (beating all the world's elite in the process), together with his 2 world records over 1500/ 1 mile in 79 and his 2 WRs in 81.This clearly made Coe the leading miler in that period. Ask any other miler at the time who they considered to be the most feared miler and they would mostly say Coe. Of course he also had Ovett, another all time great of the event, to contend with. Morceli pretty much had no one of similar stature to compete against in the early 90's, which therefore makes it easier to dominate one's peers. This is a twist of fate. Had Ovett been around during Morceli's career, then I doubt Morceli would have had everything his own way. Likewise for EL G had Morceli been a few years younger.
You also have to take into consideration the very different eras in which Coe and Morceli competed. Coe had 2 opportunities to participate in a World Champs during the 2nd half of his career, but missed out through illness in the first and injury (out all season) in the second. Morceli had 5 World Champs held every 2 years to accumulate medals, both outdoors and indoors. Coe's era was predominantly amateur, whereas Morceli's was full on professional, with a more lucrative circuit and many more opportunities to run fast times, which were set up at almost every venue. Moreover, Morceli didn't have the constraints Coe had; to run a large percentage of his races in any given season in low key domestic events and/or international matches for his country. This is one of the reasons he had far fewer opportunities to run just on the European circuit for fast times. This applied to all British athletes up to the mid 80's. They were completely different times.
The most important criteria (the pinnacle for any athlete) for assessing a career in a specific event are:
Olympic medals, no of world records and longevity. Coe trumps Morceli on all three scores over 1500m. Coe has 2 Olympic golds to Morceli's 1, 4 world records over 1500/1 mile to Morceli's 3, and was winning medals over 1500m from 1975 (European Junior bronze) to 1989 (World Cup silver). Morceli won medals over 1500m from 1988 (World Junior silver) up to 1996 (Olympic gold).
Of course Morceli scores better in T&FN's definition of 'merit' ranking, running consistently the best over a season, and has many more fast times on his CV, which is a product of the era, and is also one of the GOAT.
So it depends which criteria one buys into. I have certainly seen Coe ranked above Morceli in published all time ranking lists over 1500m. They usually occupy #2 and #3, although sometimes Herb Elliott is ranked above or between them. So no, I do not agree that Coe is far behind Morceli in any ranking of 1500m, and neither do many others, nor do I agree with your claim that this "is obvious and not debatable for objective observers."
Thank heavens for shoe technology, otherwise in 100 years tine the fastest times will still be dominated by the EPO era and idiots on here will still think El G, Morceli, Geb, Komen, Ngeny, Bekele were the greatest in history.
The 6 greatest responders to EPO out of 4 countries in a short time frame when EPO was almost undetectable or even legal.
Again in 1986, Mister Coe appear in 6 outdoor 1500m races receiving 3 defeats out of 6 races.
He was aged 29.
(El G was born 14 sep, and Coe born 19 Sep, I know you pay attention to details)
You're including his European semi-final?? He lost narrowly to Scott when he was returning from having a viral infection picked up during the Commonwealth Games. How close did Scott get to him in Rieti at the end of the season?
When Morceli was 28, he was running 6 seconds slower than his PB. Off the EPO, obviously.
Thank heavens for shoe technology, otherwise in 100 years tine the fastest times will still be dominated by the EPO era and idiots on here will still think El G, Morceli, Geb, Komen, Ngeny, Bekele were the greatest in history.
The 6 greatest responders to EPO out of 4 countries in a short time frame when EPO was almost undetectable or even legal.
No it's Zatopek the Greater of "your history".
What's your countries have stolen from other countries in the past?
Thank heavens for shoe technology, otherwise in 100 years tine the fastest times will still be dominated by the EPO era and idiots on here will still think El G, Morceli, Geb, Komen, Ngeny, Bekele were the greatest in history.
The 6 greatest responders to EPO out of 4 countries in a short time frame when EPO was almost undetectable or even legal.
No it's Zatopek the Greater of "your history".
What's your countries have stolen from other countries in the past?
For over 300 years, the coastlines of the English Channel and south west of England were at the mercy of Barbary pirates. Men, women and children were kidnapped to be sold as slaves...
Again in 1986, Mister Coe appear in 6 outdoor 1500m races receiving 3 defeats out of 6 races.
He was aged 29.
(El G was born 14 sep, and Coe born 19 Sep, I know you pay attention to details)
You've included a qualifying round where he was beaten by 0.01secs, which I'm sure Coe didn't worry about. it was 2 defeats out of 7 finals. One to Scott by 0.08 in his first race after scratching from the Commonwealths with a chest infection, and the other in a terrible tactical race he should have won at the Europeans. He also ran the fastest time in the world that year at 3:29.77.
For a start (!) - you now start unashamed lying in your posts to underline your points.
Ah yeah, Ovett lost to Byers in 81, the world famous Tom Byers, who just was the dominator of this Oslo race, right? I clarified already that he lost to Maree.
Morceli was the totally dominant Miler in 91, 93, 95. He was the world best in 90 and 94. He set a world record in 92 and (luckily) became Olympic champ in 96. He was world class in 97.
Coe has not had a single season in which he was the dominant Miler. In 81 at his best over the distance he was clearly better than the rest at their best, but raced too sparingly to call his season dominant. But improving the Mile record by over a second is fantastic, no question. But Ovett was fastest in the 1500.
Coe is famous for his unique records. This alone puts him at (or close?) to any all-time middle distance ranking. In addition to his other feats (Olympic and European titles, longevity) he clearly is the greatest middle distance runner in history.
Trying to make him best in any category someone might look at just shows your laughable attitude.
Coe is not specially famous for his winning streaks (what ever the reasons), for example. He has won - what? - 42 out of 44 800m races in a row? Please list them. There are many heats of regional champs included. Some 1:50+ victorys against local competition. How many international races? 20? He has lost 800s in 77, 78, 80, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 88, 89, 90 - despite always racing very sparingly internationally. Trying to make this look better than Kipketer's and/or Rudisha's win/loss records just shows who you really are. They almost only raced international races of the highest calibre. Like armstronglivs, just go away and leave this forum. Nobody needs someone who changes any facts to his liking just to show the greatnes of his favoured athlete.
Coe has set 4 world records in the 1500/Mile and Morceli just 3? That's true. And Morceli has improved the 1500 record by 2.09 seconds (Coe 0.13) and the Mile record by 1.93 seconds (Coe around 1.9). Both combined: Morceli 4.02 (Coe around 2.0).
I clearly stated for OBJECTIVE observers Morceli has to be ranked ahead of Coe. Looking at all facts this is obvious.
