I like emma, but i don't quite trust her when it comes to doping. I heard a lot of rumors that, she uses a lot of prescription medications from fraudulent doctors, just to help her runner faster.
I like emma, but i don't quite trust her when it comes to doping. I heard a lot of rumors that, she uses a lot of prescription medications from fraudulent doctors, just to help her runner faster.
Most people also find them to be pleasant and not “cold b!tches”. But this is LRC, so everyone has haters.
i never realized they were so close in age. I had been thinking of Emma as an over the hill veteran and Courtney as an up and coming talent, fresh out of college.
Emma has dominated the USA steeplechase for so long and has similar accolades to courtney that Emma is the obvious choice right now. Courtney could easily pass her in the next few years with a few more medals. Especially if she can get a gold
JBaller33 wrote:
This debate over the best US Women’s Steeplechaser always irritates me since one woman is one of the most outgoing, personable, all-time great US distance running personalities and is clean, while the other woman is a cold, doping, b!tch.
I agree that Emma is a cold b!tch but I'm not sure she is a doper. She can't take a loss, she accuses the winner of being a doper.
investing noob wrote:
JBaller33 wrote:
This debate over the best US Women’s Steeplechaser always irritates me since one woman is one of the most outgoing, personable, all-time great US distance running personalities and is clean, while the other woman is a cold, doping, b!tch.
I agree that Emma is a cold b!tch but I'm not sure she is a doper. She can't take a loss, she accuses the winner of being a doper.
Yep. Just watch any interview with Coburn. "Personable" hahahaha.
Frerich's is so fake. Plus she is a Burrito Babe who fully supports her fellow caught DOPER best buddy Shelby Houlihan. Sickening.
Frerichs is better now, but comparing careers she has a ways to go to catch Coburn. Coburn has 3 major championships medals -- Olympic bronze, Word Championships gold and silver. Frerichs has 2 -- Olympic and World Championships silver. Both have set the American record twice. Where Coburn really has it over Frerichs is her astounding 9 national championships in 10 years, one of them while she was still in college. Frerichs has 0 national titles. Even after physically surpassing Coburn in 2018 when she set the American record, she then proceeded to lose 5 consecutive times to Coburn until finally beating her in the Olympics this year. Those 5 losses to Coburn after surpassing her tells me she mentally didn't believe she was better than Coburn, something she recently acknowledged. Despite her superior marks, it's hard for me to accept Frerichs as having the better career when Coburn beat her so many times, particularly after Frerich's first American record.
Frerichs is definitely dirty too. Didn't know that about Coburn, but Frerichs is without a doubt doped up. Her trajectory only makes sense with drugs. It is too bad but it is true.
Which is which?
What would that record look like if they were the same age? They have both steadily improved throughout their careers and Coburn had a 3 year head start on Frerichs. If you look at results by year then Coburn is better many years, but if you shift to look at age then it looks more favorable for Frerichs.
By year (Frerichs first, Coburn second, winner listed third):
2013 9:55.02 9:28 (Coburn)
2014 9:43.07 9:11 (Coburn)
2015 9:31.36 9:15 (Coburn)
2016 9:20.92 9:07 (Coburn)
2017 9:03.77 9:02 (Coburn)
2018 9:00.85 9:05 (Frerichs)
2019 9:09.75 9:02 (Coburn)
2021 8:57.77 9:08 (Frerichs)
Shift up 3 years (same order);
9:20 9:28 (Frerichs)
9:03 9:11 (Frerichs)
9:00 9:15 (Frerichs)
9:09 9:07 (Coburn)
8:57 9:02 (Frerichs)
Someone should be able to put this in a table and make it look at lot better.
No need. Frerichs is better. Next you will tell us that Hunter is better in the 1500 than Hocker because he is 3 years older and was faster when younger.
Courtney is now inarguably the best female American steepler of all time...
She is the American record holder and nearly 3 seconds faster. There is no argument here, she's quite clearly the #1 U.S. Women's Steeplechaser.
Coburn has had much more success. But Frerichs may have the better career eventually.
she passed coburn this year.
American Record Holder wrote:
She is the American record holder and nearly 3 seconds faster. There is no argument here, she's quite clearly the #1 U.S. Women's Steeplechaser.
Yes, but that's not the question. She's #1 right now, but is she the best ever?
Put another way, do you think everyone who currently holds a WR is the best ever in that event? Is Cheptegei the best 5/10 guy of all time? Is Kibiwott Kandie the best half-marathoner of all time?
I can understand calling Frerichs the best ever, but to say it's "obvious" because she more recently broke the AR is myopic.
It is like you guys didn’t watch Coburn absolutely burry Frerichs at trials.
Yeah, Coburn peaked at the trials, so what? Frerichs peaked at the OG and she's still going strong!
jims awkward hat wrote:
It is like you guys didn’t watch Coburn absolutely burry Frerichs at trials.
It's like you didn't watch Frerichs absolutely bury Coburn at the Olympics.
Alexi Santana wrote:
What would that record look like if they were the same age? They have both steadily improved throughout their careers and Coburn had a 3 year head start on Frerichs. If you look at results by year then Coburn is better many years, but if you shift to look at age then it looks more favorable for Frerichs.
By year (Frerichs first, Coburn second, winner listed third):
2013 9:55.02 9:28 (Coburn)
2014 9:43.07 9:11 (Coburn)
2015 9:31.36 9:15 (Coburn)
2016 9:20.92 9:07 (Coburn)
2017 9:03.77 9:02 (Coburn)
2018 9:00.85 9:05 (Frerichs)
2019 9:09.75 9:02 (Coburn)
2021 8:57.77 9:08 (Frerichs)
Shift up 3 years (same order);
9:20 9:28 (Frerichs)
9:03 9:11 (Frerichs)
9:00 9:15 (Frerichs)
9:09 9:07 (Coburn)
8:57 9:02 (Frerichs)
Someone should be able to put this in a table and make it look at lot better.
This is one of the better arguments I’ve seen and addressed my previous post well. Although you shifted for grade level, not age. Emma is 2 yrs 2 months and some days older than Frerichs so I could shift it 2 years for age and it’d be 3-3. Also, season record times don’t mean nearly as much as championship racing.
But it really depends on if Courtney has an additional 2-3 years after Emma. If Courtney continues to progress and dominates for 2-3 years after Emma declines (basically continues to match your grade-progression), then it’s a lot more clear. Courtney could very well be the best ever.. but as of right now, I don’t think she is. Your table more illustrated that Courtney has the potential (or is very likely) to be the best ever. But currently, she still has Zero US titles.. she’s never been crowned best in the US... so how can she be the best ever?