Cole MF Hocker. 52.23 last lap. 3:35.35 FTW over Nuguse!!!

Amazing finish!

Nuguse has the ncaa record (which will be broken in the next few years) and Hocker is ncaa champ (which will not be taken away) and he beat the ncaa record holder to become the champ. As good as it gets.

Hocker is a better competitor and has the better accomplishment. For now....

Can’t wait until the next time they meet.

Kessler is going to beat Nuguse.

All this talk and no mention of Centro or Engels. Those two make the team but who is the 3rd?

Experience counts for something.

yeah but what about... wrote:

All this talk and no mention of Centro or Engels. Those two make the team but who is the 3rd?

Experience counts for something.

Is Engels guaranteed ? Not sure he’s more fit than Hocker and Nuguse. Recent 3:33 pr from Engels… both those other guys can run as fast or faster and may be able to close better

Random question xyz wrote:

yeah but what about... wrote:

All this talk and no mention of Centro or Engels. Those two make the team but who is the 3rd?

Experience counts for something.

Is Engels guaranteed ? Not sure he’s more fit than Hocker and Nuguse. Recent 3:33 pr from Engels… both those other guys can run as fast or faster and may be able to close better

And yes the experience point is well taken

I think we can all agree that Hocker and Nuguse would destroy Engels in a 5k. They were able to close in sub 1:50 because of their 5k strength. Has Engels ever done anything close to what they did yesterday? NO

wannabepro25 wrote:

Has Engels ever done anything close to what they did yesterday? NO

Except for a 3:33...

tuccone wrote:

malmo wrote:

You should be taking notes. What separates him is that he goes to the arms when he kicks.

^^^^^^^^^^^

Norris in the women's steeplechase too.

train wheels wrote:

He has to have the worst running form of any NCAA champ. My goodness, those arms look like he’s milking a cow!!

I wish I could milk a cow like he does in 52.23 seconds, and with Kipsang kicking his stool out from under him along the way.

yeah but what about... wrote:

wannabepro25 wrote:

Has Engels ever done anything close to what they did yesterday? NO

Except for a 3:33...

Haha yeah okay. 3.33 is a nice time - it's barely world class these days. Going 56, 58.5, 58.5, 40.5 should be bread and butter for a paid pro.

Hocker closing in 1.48.8 (and Nuguse in 1.49.2 after leading the entire race) and running under 3.36 is far more impressive and is world class in any era. So no, Engels hasn't done anything close to what they did yesterday.

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

yeah but what about... wrote:

Except for a 3:33...

Haha yeah okay. 3.33 is a nice time - it's barely world class these days. Going 56, 58.5, 58.5, 40.5 should be bread and butter for a paid pro.

Hocker closing in 1.48.8 (and Nuguse in 1.49.2 after leading the entire race) and running under 3.36 is far more impressive and is world class in any era. So no, Engels hasn't done anything close to what they did yesterday.

....And an even younger and much less experienced HS kid is faster than both Hocker and Nuguse and was closing hard on Engels during that 3:33

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

yeah but what about... wrote:

Except for a 3:33...

Haha yeah okay. 3.33 is a nice time - it's barely world class these days. Going 56, 58.5, 58.5, 40.5 should be bread and butter for a paid pro.

Hocker closing in 1.48.8 (and Nuguse in 1.49.2 after leading the entire race) and running under 3.36 is far more impressive and is world class in any era. So no, Engels hasn't done anything close to what they did yesterday.

Crazy to think that 1:48.44 was Hocker’s PB three months ago. Now he can close in 1:48.8 (off a decent pace)

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

yeah but what about... wrote:

Except for a 3:33...

Haha yeah okay. 3.33 is a nice time - it's barely world class these days. Going 56, 58.5, 58.5, 40.5 should be bread and butter for a paid pro.

Hocker closing in 1.48.8 (and Nuguse in 1.49.2 after leading the entire race) and running under 3.36 is far more impressive and is world class in any era. So no, Engels hasn't done anything close to what they did yesterday.

That's hard on Engels. 3:33 is solid and 2 seconds faster than Hocker right now. I take your point, if Cheruiyot does something dumb and decides to run slow and from the mid-pack then Hocker could be in the game, if he can make it that far. I think the chance of that happening is less than 1% but it's a chance.

I'm a bit more optimistic of him making it through the rounds at the trials. I mean, he's used to doubling up, it's just measuring effort a little more than he usually does

It's incredibly awesome. I mean his official PR as of today is of course 1.46.39 but if you can run 1.48.XX to close out a 3.35 race you can run well under 1.46. I'm sure we will find out in the next couple of seasons.

A few days on I'm still stunned to have seen such a performance from 2 collegiate athletes - a performance that by the numbers is on par with performances that have won Olympic Games and World Championships in the past. I thought of another race that was similar - the 96 Olympics, Again, if Hocker and Nuguse could perform at such a level on that stage - well who knows.

Splits from Atlanta - Morceli wins in 3min35.78

61.03

60.60 (2.01.63)

53.49 (2.55.12)

40.54

The only difference is a that 3rd lap (same as El G in Athens). Sure in this race Morceli turns off the gas with 20m to go and almost walks across the line so he probably runs a second faster if he pushes all the way but Cacho and Kipkorir aren't easing up and they walk away with hardware.

I'm just so interested to see how these two fare at trials. I actually believe Nuguse is in a better position - he's raced so much less (including not running a pointless 5000m 80min after the 15 final) and he has been pulling from the front this whole time. I think if he can get some rest in a pack and drive the pace from 600m out in 2 weeks time I really like his chances. Hocker is a better talent but all this racing will catch up with him at some point.

runderun wrote:

That's hard on Engels. 3:33 is solid and 2 seconds faster than Hocker right now. I take your point, if Cheruiyot does something dumb and decides to run slow and from the mid-pack then Hocker could be in the game, if he can make it that far. I think the chance of that happening is less than 1% but it's a chance.

I'm a bit more optimistic of him making it through the rounds at the trials. I mean, he's used to doubling up, it's just measuring effort a little more than he usually does

I don't think it's hard on Engels and it's not meant to be. But this is the reality of elite 1500m running. 3.33 in a race set up for running fast is good - but it's not world class as you said it's solid. But 3.35 with a 52 last lap is not solid - it's exceptional and it's world class. And "hard" as it may be the only other person in this country that can/has done this before is the reigning Olympic Champion. It's just the facts brother.

I think it's way too soon to be talking Olympic Final - the odds of that happening are not super high. The hardest part about winning the Olympic 1500m isn't even crossing the line first in the final - it's navigating through the rounds without making a mistake which is a real artform that requires a lot of experience.

incredible commentary here.

the deal is hocker is surely a lock for a 1500 spot.

however,

the question is can he sustain his form?

probably

like one poster said, the 5000m was super unnecessary.

but he did it for the team.

usa tf is super fun right now.

regarding Engles trials

if he is sharp, ya he can get in there.

3rd.

will need the A game for sure.

and some others to bring their B

if you know Engles workouts this past week, you'd know how to bet.

centro, too, will need to bring it on game day.

he's got his work cut out for him.

the bet is centro and the #12 ncaa guys

Salvatore S wrote:

"Thank you. And to all those who laughed and scoffed at the initial idea that Hocker would have the ability to mix it with the likes of Jakob I - I'm so happy he stuffed it in your faces yesterday so emphatically. Ye of little faith or track and field knowledge.

Final point on this - the 5000m final. Was running today and have to say I don't understand this move (Hocker running it). I get the surface logic - probably a combination of "points for the team" and "make the kid tough for rounds of the 15" but to me that in reality serves nothing more than to fatigue him unnecessarily. You aren't "adding toughness" at this point in the season 2 weeks out from the trials. He should have been in full Roger Bannister mode after that 15 final as in it's a diet of jogging and sleeping from now on until maybe that week of the trials when he maybe needs a short session to rev the motor up again.

Despite the brilliance yesterday - world class brilliance, I don't think he's a sure thing to make the team. Guys like Centro, Engels etc are slowly building towards Sunday the 27th for a reason. It's hard to imagine Hocker is improving on where he was at yesterday - and there are still 15 days until the final. I just feel like the 5000m was super unnecessary at this point."

-----

Don´t you realize how you contradict yourself?

You state that Hocker could mix with the likes of Jakob considering Hocker´s 1500m win saturday.

But you then also state that he possibly can´t improve more before the Olympic trials where Centro and Engels most likely will beat him.

But how should Hocker be in the mix with Jakob if he can´t beat Centro and Engels WHO HAVE NEVER BEAT JAKOB EVEN THOUGH THEY STARTED TO COMPETE HIM WHEN JAKOB WAS ONLY 17 YEARS OLD ( on a much lower level as now at 20)?

If Hocker can´t beat Centro and Engels comfortably at the Olympic trials all talk of "being in the mix" with Jakob must stop!

I have been positive on Hocker since his great indoor mile at 3.50 predicting he has a good possibility to make the olympic team BUT I don´t think Hocker has any chance to beat Jakob at this time in their careers.

Jakob possibly has potential to go 1-2 seconds faster in the 1500m in Monaco this year if the pacemakers get it right.