A woman speaks out! Competing vs trans women is unfair.

1101 wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Democrats don't believe being opposed to the existence of transgender is racism. That would be bigotry.

Someone can be opposed to transgender athletes competing against women and not be canceled. Countless state senators have voted to have them banned from womens sports. The reaction to Jenner was that she was a hypocrite.

How was Jenner a hypocrite?

She changed her position on the issue when she decided to run for governor in California:

Lenny Leonard wrote:

supporteofwomenrights wrote:

Your argument that “trans girls are girls” is wrong and you proved it yourself in your statement.

Trans girls are like you said, trans girls.

30 plus states have already disagreed with you and have voted to ban trans girls (males who transitioned to female) from women’s sports.

Your reading comprehension skills are abysmal. By saying “trans girls are girls” I am very much saying that the term “trans girls” does not need to exist in sport. YOU are the person who are saying that there needs to be some sort of distinction.

Also, your “30 states” thing is false. Prove it. You can’t because you are just making things up, whereas I am dealing in reality.

You MIGHT be dealing in the reality of what is occurring in sports right now (which this post is debating as necessary), but you aren't dealing in reality. The Trans Girls have an x chromosome. Declaring "I'm a girl" does not make them a girl any more than me saying "I'm a millionaire" make me one. The "girls sports" needs to be reclassed as xx-chromosome only.

Viking21 wrote:

I would suggest that you find somebody to speak for you, provided that you actually have something to say. I'm not speaking for a random monolithic block of girls. I'm doing my best to look out for the interests of my athletes as they present them to me. Did you have no one to confide in as a young girl?

I have never been a young girl, or an old girl for that matter. And I always spoke for myself no matter my age. There were many adults who tried to speak for me without my consent and that annoyed me to no end. So as an adult, I never try to speak for young women I mentor. Instead I encourage them to speak for themselves, but support them if they face any backlash.

So while I pointed out that Chelsea Mitchell may not have the standing in this case, I nonetheless support her right to speak her mind. I also support the right of young women who want to support their transgender teammates and competitors. They do not deserve to be shouted down like they are on this board and elsewhere.

These women, for example, deserve to be heard.

https://www.womenssportsfoundation.org/press_release/billie-jean-king-megan-rapinoe-and-candace-parker-join-nearly-200-athletes-supporting-trans-youth-participation-in-sports/

I think Lenny got it right, and cut to the core yet another hateful Letsrun thread. C'mon, what's the great unfairness issue here? That a couple of h.s. sprinters were 4th instead of 3rd at the state meet? That is the injustice that leads to all these horrible comments? It's just staggering that this is even a debate. The great danger to women's sports is exactly like stop the steal - non-existent but a useful illusion in the minds of angry, narrow minded people to keep spreading hate and division. Accept people for their identity, period. And I'll repeat my claim - where are all the voices from teammates and coaches of trans athletes? 100% in support of them competing per their identity.

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

These women, for example, deserve to be heard.

https://www.womenssportsfoundation.org/press_release/billie-jean-king-megan-rapinoe-and-candace-parker-join-nearly-200-athletes-supporting-trans-youth-participation-in-sports/

___________________________

I don't put much stock in letter signing campaigns these days. People often feel compelled to sign onto things they do not agree with because they're afraid of being called a bigot. Signatures do not tell us who felt coerced or ambivalent, or who is simply keeping her mouth shut because she wants to avoid harassment and threats.

I'd also like to comment on the "women's voices" part. Though I agree that, in a democratic system, we should listen to people affected by particular policies, we should not accept the tacit assertion that people have special access to reality due to their immutable characteristics.

Anybody can look at physiological and performance data and draw conclusions. Data overwhelmingly show that males, even those on hormone therapy for gender transition, retain a significant advantage over females in sport. If people want to argue that social inclusion for trans girls is more important than sporting opportunities for natal girls, they should own up to the argument, not pretend that their opponents are bigots without evidence.

When did the left get so misogynist and totalitarian?

^This. Fantastic post.

I don’t know why you are acting like you are pointing out something that I am afraid to say.

Social inclusion for trans girls is AS important as sporting opportunities for natal girls.

People who are opposed to transgender athletes competing either:

1. Don’t think transgenderism is even real, or that it is “impossible” for a boy to become a girl.

Or

2. They accept transgender people and their ability to live in their chosen gender, except in sports where they would have them either compete in their assigned gender or not at all.

If you fall in either of one of those camps, show me how you would word your explanation that to a transgender 16-year-old who wants to run the 200m for her track team.

You have remained utterly and consistently deaf to the argument made in this thread and others like it that transgender have an unfair advantage in female sports by virtue of their being biologically male. It is consistent with the principle that separates male from female sports, which is not for social or cultural reasons but the biological advantages males have.

Until you address that your arguments concerning inclusivity are irrelevant.

Lenny Leonard wrote:

This is old news. And don’t pretend that this isn’t racially motivated. This would not be an issue in states that aren’t predominantly white.

Trans girls are girls. They run against girls. Stop bending everything to your transphobic narrative.

Stating extremely controversial opinions as if it's fact lol. What has happened to the left? Yall used to be on the right side of history. Now you're twisting yourself in knots to fit in with your faulty tribal dogma. It's like watching a conservative defend intelligent design. Look in the mirror.

First off, “biologically male” is hateful speech. Don’t say it anymore.

Second, I don’t care if they have an advantage, they’re girls running against girls. I don’t know how else I need to defend against it. I don’t think it’s an issue. This girl in Connecticut didn’t win states. If she lived in Texas, she also would not have won states. Her time just is what it is.

I am pro-women’s sports, and I mean for ALL women.

____________________

Transgenderism is a Western, culturally-specific explanation for gender non-conformity, not a specific type of person. Gender nonconformity and bodily dismorphias probably have multiple causes, and these causes likely differ from person-to-person. Hormones and surgery are interventions that help some people alleviate dysphoria by allowing them to live, socially, as if they were the other sex. It does not make that person a member of the other biological sex category because it is impossible to change one's sex. Maybe it will be possible to do this in the future with CRISPR technology. It's not possible now.

You can go fly a kite with your, "What would you say to a 16-year-old?" I'd tell them to compete with their biological sex and advocate for boys' sports teams to be more welcoming to trans girls. I'd tell them that, although they face some barriers due to their gender identity, that none of these hardships give them the right to compete against people who don't have the same biological advantages they have. I'd also tell them that, if they choose to take hormones, these hormones will impede their athletic performance but not eliminate male advantage in sport. If they want to take hormones and still compete, they might advocate for more co-ed sports or for trans sports categories.

GD wrote:

Anybody can look at physiological and performance data and draw conclusions. Data overwhelmingly show that males, even those on hormone therapy for gender transition, retain a significant advantage over females in sport. If people want to argue that social inclusion for trans girls is more important than sporting opportunities for natal girls, they should own up to the argument, not pretend that their opponents are bigots without evidence.

So if young women who are in sports say social inclusion is more important than competitive fairness, what do you say? They are only saying that because they want to avoid harassment and threats? That you know better than them and therefore they should listen to you?

I couldn't care less what you think or what Lenny Leonard thinks for that matter. The only important question is whether cis girls want to include trans girls even if that means they might lose to them. If they want inclusion, that's their choice. It's none of my f**king business.

Biological males have no business competing in women's sports, period. It is not a close question. And the navel-gazing, selfishness and narcissism of those who claim otherwise is laughable. Who cares how a person identifies? Why are they deemed more important than the women they are cheating and their feelings and rights? It is absurd.

astro wrote:

Biological males have no business competing in women's sports, period. It is not a close question. And the navel-gazing, selfishness and narcissism of those who claim otherwise is laughable. Who cares how a person identifies? Why are they deemed more important than the women they are cheating and their feelings and rights? It is absurd.

Rebekah's teammates disagree with you.

She's right. The fact that she is being smeared as transphobic by the woke mob only proves her point.

Social inclusion for trans girls is AS important as sporting opportunities for natal girls.

No, the social inclusion of males with claimed "gender issues" in female sport is not AT ALL as important as opportunities for girls in girls' & women's sports. Female sports are not consolation prizes for males unhappy with their sex or sexual orientation.

First off, “biologically male” is hateful speech. Don’t say it anymore.

WTF? Males have lorded it over females since the dawn of recorded time. Yet now when some males are using "gender identity" claims to make full-scale assaults on girls' & women's rights, it's suddenly bad taste and "not the done thing" to mention biology?

If your mom, grandmas and all their friends and peers have signed off on your views, please share the evidence.

Second, I don’t care if they have an advantage, they’re girls running against girls. I don’t know how else I need to defend against it. I don’t think it’s an issue.

So you think that males who've gone through male adolescent puberty and have acquired all the male sports advantages that result are

girls running against girls.

Which is a POV most people would disagree with.

What you personally care about, know about, defend or think is an issue is immaterial here. Male and female humans are different to one another starting at the moment of conception/fertilization.

Wait! You're not even female, yet here you are defending females from men like me defending females, because you apparently think I'm patronizing them or something? Did they ask you to speak on their behalf, or did you decide to protect them from me on your own? Do you have a brain injury?

Everyone hush in silence. A female is speaking. The words she speaks are infinitely more valuable than your male words. Patriarchy bow down.