400h - WARHOLM 46.87

No, the condition was a best below 44.00.

Jo72 wrote:

By these stats one can as well argue that the 400m hurdles and 800m were exceptionally strong records in the early 80s. Or that they were helped less by methods that became available later on.

Yes, for sure that's correct. As I have said, no proof at all. Iit's not even possible to proof which record is the best or the "worst". And it's not even clear what does it mean at all when we say this record is "better" than this one.

But when the (altitude aided) 100m record has improved by 0.35s and during the same period the 400mH "just" by 0.24s I have the strong feeling that this is mainly because there was not much focus on the 400mH.

From 1994 until 2017 (24 seasons) there have been 13 sub 47.50 times (from 57 such times at all). Overall, the event just was at a very low (for sure relatively speaking) level.

With currently three athletes at age 23/24 capable of running sub 47 when healthy, I expect the record to go down to something like 46.50 or maybe even 46.30.

could you clarify that hard question?

mr. nice guy wrote:

could you clarify that hard question?

That's from you:

mr. nice guy wrote:

"throws are way overrated in the points, only reason he has the wr"

I've asked for some explanation to this, which you havn't done (or which I havn't understood).

If any javelin (for example) performance would be worth 1000 points more than currently, it would be extremely "overrated" correctly? What would be the change in any decathlon ranking?

well it's already overrated if the guy outruns and outjumps you and somehow still loses

still not sure why you're asking it, but obviously even more throwers woud undeservedly be over 9k (and some over 10k)

Kerron Clement is a great demonstration of the dynamic. Crappy technician, great 400m runner. He ran 44.57 indoors for the 400 at his best. While his outdoor PB is 44.4, I bet in 2005 at his absolute peak he was a 43.9-44.1 type guy in the 400 outdoors (he only raced 1 outdoor 400m that season and ran 45.2 in Stockholm 4 days after running 49.0 in the hurdles).

He ran 47.24 that season. Throughout his career, despite 44.5-45.5 form, he was more of a consistent 47.5-48.5 performer. Basically a differential of 3 seconds. A good technician can get this differential to around 2 or 2.5 seconds like Warholm has or Felix Sanchez had (44.9 PB, but more typically in 45-low shape). This makes me think the record's more proper location is at around 46.5 seconds, as Samba, Warholm and Benjamin can all run 44.0-44.4 with good hurdling technique. If you are a runner who can run 43.6-44.0 in the 400, you might be more inclined to run the flat 400m and the 200m.

mr. nice guy wrote:

well it's already overrated if the guy outruns and outjumps you and somehow still loses

Can you please give examples?

mr. nice guy wrote:

still not sure why you're asking it, but obviously even more throwers woud undeservedly be over 9k (and some over 10k)

OK, it seems it really needs some explanation: for sure there would be no change at all.

1. yes, eaton and mayer

2. ...what are you talking about? did you mean just adding 1000 to everyone? what sense would that make? I thought you meant 'what if every cm counted for even more?'

The Unkle wrote:

You have to have suspicious.

This guy can somehow all out sprint for 400 meters over hurdles.

Exactly this! You just can't do that. Everyone posting here has obviously never run the 400h. The guy is sprinting all out the full lap. And then follows it up with another 400? Get out of here.

matt_london_413 wrote:

gordanshumway wrote:

I think you meant to say, he is white, so he must be clean. If he was African or Jamaican, this site would be trashing him.

It's not even that.

It's just nobody that has ever been good in the 400 open has ever switched over to the 400 Hurdles.

By good I mean below 43.84. So yeah i'll say below 43.84 in the open 400 not 43.53. The male 400 hurdles set by Young is officially the weakest WR in track and field right now.

And I just did some more calculations I now think Van Nierkerk or however you spell that has potential to do 45.65 in the hurdles if he specifically trained for it.

46.8s aren't really impressive to me. Maybe to you it is though. I don't know.

This is a dumb statement. Angelo Taylor was a 44 flat 400m runner and still could never crack 47 in the hurdles. The longest standing record in track is not the weakest record.

gordanshumway wrote:

The Unkle wrote:

You have to have suspicious.

This guy can somehow all out sprint for 400 meters over hurdles.

Exactly this! You just can't do that. Everyone posting here has obviously never run the 400h. The guy is sprinting all out the full lap. And then follows it up with another 400? Get out of here.

I am confused by this line of thinking. I don't think he looks like he's sprinting much differently than Rai Benjamin. He just has a bigger arm swing that makes it *look* like he's going stronger. This is like saying Centrowitz is running easier than Steve Cram because of nuances of their arm swing.

mr. nice guy wrote:

1. yes, eaton and mayer

2. ...what are you talking about? did you mean just adding 1000 to everyone? what sense would that make? I thought you meant 'what if every cm counted for even more?'

Ashton Eaton has run 10.21, 45.00 and has jumped 5.40 and 8.23. But he set his WR because of his overrated throws?

I was talking about increasing all the points for the javelin by 1000. For sure this would make no sense and nothing would be changed. But the event would be "overrated", correct?

I just don't see why you think the throws are overrated.

mayer is the better thrower, buddy. his wr is undeserved imo

running and jumping to me are what athletics is about, 3 fringe events shouldn't overshadow

You have got to give it to Mayer. He is the world record holder. He beat Ashton Eaton's world records. The decathlon requires that you be a good thrower to get it. If you want to compare heptathlon's, cutting out the throws, that's your prerogative. But that's a different event. Still, I think that Ashton Eaton left some out there with his early retirement. Put simply, he didn't have any great competitors. He was bored. With Mayer there pushing him, who knows what Eaton could have done. The latter's misfortune was that he put a world record out there right away at the Trials and no one was there to challenge him from that point on.

not saying km's bad, the rules are. they don't even need to dispose of all throws, but discus and jav (both niche and quite pointless unless you're a specialist) can be replaced with 400mh/800/3000sc/3j

mr. nice guy wrote:

mayer is the better thrower, buddy. his wr is undeserved imo

running and jumping to me are what athletics is about, 3 fringe events shouldn't overshadow

Seems a complete misunderstanding of what decathlon is all about, namely having roughly equal amounts of jumps, throws and track. If anything the throws are slightly underrated in the multi-event because the whole favors usually a sprints/long jump type (most decathletes that were competitive at another event did long jump or hurdles). Niklas Kaul has been the first world class decathlete in some time who might have been a world class (javelin) thrower.

In practice, I think key events in decathlon are often the vertical jumps because of the progression and nerves can lead to disproportionate gains/losses. (Also the sequence hurdles, discus, pole vault is technically very challenging and the real test of a decathlete, not the middle school events of day one, everyone can get some mark in).

And the javelin because it comes so late and is more wind-sensitive than discus so the probability of a lucky throw that sets up the ranking very late in the multi-event is higher.

mr. nice guy wrote:

mayer is the better thrower, buddy. his wr is undeserved imo

His WR is undeserved because he's the BETTER thrower...

And therefor I have wasted my time.

underrated? two throwing events where decathletes (except the ones from throwing backgrounds) can only hope to be not super embarrassing, but still much further behind specialists than in real events? 70 vs 90? 55 vs 70? on the other hand, you have low 10 guys, 8+ in the long jump, 5.40 pv, 45 400 which all are clearly more impressive to anyone watching and objectively compared to the specialists, hence official proof of superior athleticism. but that's 'overrated' in athletics... cmon

don't care about your time, but you're wasting mine. learn to read instead of making multiple posts before even figuring out what's going on. throws are overrated in decathlon. ashton is a weaker thrower but superior overal athlete. the end