Official Covid Vaccine thread

Precious Roy wrote:

You know your "debate me bro" challenge is lame when even Mark Cuban can take you down.

I actually would like Hotez to debate RFK, Jr. Not because there is a chance that Hotez would win and convince anti-vaxxers that they are wrong. There is no chance of that. Anti-vaxxers operate from the standpoint of starting with the conclusion that modern medicine is inherently bad and work backwards to patch together a tapestry of cherry picked quotes from studies and quack fringe "experts" like the GBD gooberheads to feed themselves a constant stream of confirmation bias. I would like to see Hotez debate RFJ, Jr. to cement the fact that RFJ, Jr. is as hard into his anti-vaxxer BS as he has ever been and should not be taken seriously as a left alternative to Biden. I have seen too many progressives getting excited about a possible RFK, Jr. run at Biden that would force Biden to move back more to the left (after Ron Klain left, Biden has been on a steady tack to the center-right). But the progressive flirtation with RFK, Jr. is based on the possibility that the RFK, Jr. who started Riverkeepers and was actually a very good advocate for the environment would put his anti-vaxxer BS at least in the back seat. His appearance on Rogan shows that the opposite is morel likely to happen. RFK, Jr. sees this as his big chance to mainstream his anti-vaxxer view and seems very ready to let his positions on the environment take a back seat. Hopefully, this would finally get progressives off their butts to make sure that the left isn't taken over by a horseshoe right wing with kooks like RFK, Jr., Greenwald, Aaron Mate, and Jimmy Dore. These clowns have compromised any semblance of progressive principles for clicks as they try to make a living on substack, youtube, etc.

Tweet:twitter.com/mcuban/status/167048337139...

DanM wrote:

idiocy detector wrote:

this is very basic so try your best to understand. People that are experts in their fields of science and medical research are not debaters, performers or Howard Stern type talkers. The Debate that Joe Rogan and Musk are proposing is WWF style entertainment for people that don't want truth. They want to win a battle like a football game. There is only one person that would benefit and that is whoever was the loudest and hurled the most zingers, insults for their red meat loving fans. And the one that needed to add validity to his claims. Hotez does not need to do that. If you watch RFK jr that is who he is 100%.

In the age of propaganda and conspiracy theories, all you need to do is have one expert lower himself and talk about your crazy theories and it will add validity. And the more people that are talking about your conspiracy no matter how debunked it might have been, the more validity it obtains among true believers. This is how propaganda in Russia has worked for years. Just get people debating it and then truth is just a moving target and people's opinions are just as valid. Truth simply does not exist in Russia.

If RFK Jr has valid claims medical or scientific claims or theories why not get scientifically published? We know why. It is clear as day. It is sad you don't.

How about a debate between Hotez and Aseem Malhotra ? It won't happen because Hotez would refuse that too. An opponent employed in a relevant scientific or medical profession could provide a valuable counterpoint, but Hotez will not participate in a setting where he must engage in dialogue with a challenger. He is an establishment vax pusher who is uncomfortable with the non-compliant.

Precious Roy wrote:

You know your "debate me bro" challenge is lame when even Mark Cuban can take you down.

I actually would like Hotez to debate RFK, Jr. Not because there is a chance that Hotez would win and convince anti-vaxxers that they are wrong. There is no chance of that. Anti-vaxxers operate from the standpoint of starting with the conclusion that modern medicine is inherently bad and work backwards to patch together a tapestry of cherry picked quotes from studies and quack fringe "experts" like the GBD gooberheads to feed themselves a constant stream of confirmation bias. I would like to see Hotez debate RFJ, Jr. to cement the fact that RFJ, Jr. is as hard into his anti-vaxxer BS as he has ever been and should not be taken seriously as a left alternative to Biden. I have seen too many progressives getting excited about a possible RFK, Jr. run at Biden that would force Biden to move back more to the left (after Ron Klain left, Biden has been on a steady tack to the center-right). But the progressive flirtation with RFK, Jr. is based on the possibility that the RFK, Jr. who started Riverkeepers and was actually a very good advocate for the environment would put his anti-vaxxer BS at least in the back seat. His appearance on Rogan shows that the opposite is morel likely to happen. RFK, Jr. sees this as his big chance to mainstream his anti-vaxxer view and seems very ready to let his positions on the environment take a back seat. Hopefully, this would finally get progressives off their butts to make sure that the left isn't taken over by a horseshoe right wing with kooks like RFK, Jr., Greenwald, Aaron Mate, and Jimmy Dore. These clowns have compromised any semblance of progressive principles for clicks as they try to make a living on substack, youtube, etc.

Tweet:twitter.com/mcuban/status/167048337139...

Sheepsville 101 wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

You can put forth statements that are true ... that have no relations to the conclusions you draw.

"The sky is blue on sunny days" is true! "The sky is blue, therefore the stars are fake" is not a defensible conclusion... but I could do what you are doing and say "prove that my facts are in dispute, is the sky not blue??"

It's a sophomoric attempt at discussion.

Video:www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoMAR9rOCrk

Of course this video is all BS, right? The bottom line is that anything that doesn't agree with your ignorant ideology is false, right? Watch the video and learn.

Don't think right wing, left wing or even dead center neutral.

Open your closed mind and learn something today. There are about 5 of you that really need help, serious help.

You took the jab, don't take it out on others for your poor choices. No person would ever wish that you got sick or died, that's ludicrous on too many levels to discuss.

If you are happy with your choice, then let it be. Why are you incessantly defending your poor choice?

A video from YouTube or GooTube or NoTube doesn't matter. It's the information that is being shared and the facts that are described. Voiding info because of a liberal site like YouTube doesn't make you look too bright sir.

Watch the video mate and learn. Prediction: You won't watch it;)

Covidiocy wrote:

Monkeys Skyping wrote:

It seems less incredible when one considers that you haven't provided much in the way of objective evidence to support the idea that the vaccine isn't a net benefit to all groups. Particularly when this seems contrary to everything I've seen.

Well totally ignoring the pre-print posted here yesterday that clearly suggested natural immunity was better against XBB variants than the most recent iteration of the vaccine (immunological imprinting or immune tolerance or both), because, you know, that “totally biased and credibility-lacking” Cleveland Clinic put it out, there’s plenty of “data” out there for those who have bothered to look without an agenda, which are few and far between.

“This systematic review and meta-regression found that both previous infection alone and previous infection combined with previous vaccination (ie, hybrid immunity) conferred rapidly waning protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection with the omicron variant, but high and sustained protection against hospital admission or severe disease due to the omicron variant. Previous infection was found to provide higher protection against reinfection and more sustained protection against hospital admission or severe disease than vaccination alone. However, individuals with hybrid immunity had the highest magnitude and durability of protection against all outcomes, emphasising the importance of providing vaccination to previously infected individuals.

Another systematic review similarly reported rapid waning of protection against infection with the omicron variant, but was unable to infer protection against severe disease over time and did not examine hybrid immunity.7
Previous studies have similarly reported that previous infection confers more durable protection than vaccination.31
This pattern might be explained by natural infection invoking a more diverse immune response to multiple antigenic sites on the virus compared to the immunity developed through vaccines that target only spike antigens.”

Link:www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/arti...

idiocy detector wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

You know your "debate me bro" challenge is lame when even Mark Cuban can take you down.

I actually would like Hotez to debate RFK, Jr. Not because there is a chance that Hotez would win and convince anti-vaxxers that they are wrong. There is no chance of that. Anti-vaxxers operate from the standpoint of starting with the conclusion that modern medicine is inherently bad and work backwards to patch together a tapestry of cherry picked quotes from studies and quack fringe "experts" like the GBD gooberheads to feed themselves a constant stream of confirmation bias. I would like to see Hotez debate RFJ, Jr. to cement the fact that RFJ, Jr. is as hard into his anti-vaxxer BS as he has ever been and should not be taken seriously as a left alternative to Biden. I have seen too many progressives getting excited about a possible RFK, Jr. run at Biden that would force Biden to move back more to the left (after Ron Klain left, Biden has been on a steady tack to the center-right). But the progressive flirtation with RFK, Jr. is based on the possibility that the RFK, Jr. who started Riverkeepers and was actually a very good advocate for the environment would put his anti-vaxxer BS at least in the back seat. His appearance on Rogan shows that the opposite is morel likely to happen. RFK, Jr. sees this as his big chance to mainstream his anti-vaxxer view and seems very ready to let his positions on the environment take a back seat. Hopefully, this would finally get progressives off their butts to make sure that the left isn't taken over by a horseshoe right wing with kooks like RFK, Jr., Greenwald, Aaron Mate, and Jimmy Dore. These clowns have compromised any semblance of progressive principles for clicks as they try to make a living on substack, youtube, etc.

Tweet:twitter.com/mcuban/status/167048337139...

RFKJr is a Steve Bannon created and funded election fucqery scheme. He is a chaos agent. Just like Roger Stone and Michael Flynn. NO Labels is also a chaos scheme to help elect Trump. The more people talk about the chaos agents and their topics the less people live in reality. The less people are focused on what is actually good for them or the country. The job market, the economy, healthcare, education. None of these chaos have any chance of getting elected. That is not the goal in any way shape or form. They want to muck up the election. And of course, they want to grift.

idiocy detector wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

You know your "debate me bro" challenge is lame when even Mark Cuban can take you down.

I actually would like Hotez to debate RFK, Jr. Not because there is a chance that Hotez would win and convince anti-vaxxers that they are wrong. There is no chance of that. Anti-vaxxers operate from the standpoint of starting with the conclusion that modern medicine is inherently bad and work backwards to patch together a tapestry of cherry picked quotes from studies and quack fringe "experts" like the GBD gooberheads to feed themselves a constant stream of confirmation bias. I would like to see Hotez debate RFJ, Jr. to cement the fact that RFJ, Jr. is as hard into his anti-vaxxer BS as he has ever been and should not be taken seriously as a left alternative to Biden. I have seen too many progressives getting excited about a possible RFK, Jr. run at Biden that would force Biden to move back more to the left (after Ron Klain left, Biden has been on a steady tack to the center-right). But the progressive flirtation with RFK, Jr. is based on the possibility that the RFK, Jr. who started Riverkeepers and was actually a very good advocate for the environment would put his anti-vaxxer BS at least in the back seat. His appearance on Rogan shows that the opposite is morel likely to happen. RFK, Jr. sees this as his big chance to mainstream his anti-vaxxer view and seems very ready to let his positions on the environment take a back seat. Hopefully, this would finally get progressives off their butts to make sure that the left isn't taken over by a horseshoe right wing with kooks like RFK, Jr., Greenwald, Aaron Mate, and Jimmy Dore. These clowns have compromised any semblance of progressive principles for clicks as they try to make a living on substack, youtube, etc.

Tweet:twitter.com/mcuban/status/167048337139...

RFKJr is a Steve Bannon created and funded election fucqery scheme. He is a chaos agent. Just like Roger Stone and Michael Flynn. NO Labels is also a chaos scheme to help elect Trump. The more people talk about the chaos agents and their topics the less people live in reality. The less people are focused on what is actually good for them or the country. The job market, the economy, healthcare, education. None of these chaos have any chance of getting elected. That is not the goal in any way shape or form. They want to muck up the election. And of course, they want to grift.

Sheepsville 101 wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

You can put forth statements that are true ... that have no relations to the conclusions you draw.

"The sky is blue on sunny days" is true! "The sky is blue, therefore the stars are fake" is not a defensible conclusion... but I could do what you are doing and say "prove that my facts are in dispute, is the sky not blue??"

It's a sophomoric attempt at discussion.

Video:www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoMAR9rOCrk

Of course this video is all BS, right? The bottom line is that anything that doesn't agree with your ignorant ideology is false, right? Watch the video and learn.

Don't think right wing, left wing or even dead center neutral.

Open your closed mind and learn something today. There are about 5 of you that really need help, serious help.

You took the jab, don't take it out on others for your poor choices. No person would ever wish that you got sick or died, that's ludicrous on too many levels to discuss.

If you are happy with your choice, then let it be. Why are you incessantly defending your poor choice?

A video from YouTube or GooTube or NoTube doesn't matter. It's the information that is being shared and the facts that are described. Voiding info because of a liberal site like YouTube doesn't make you look too bright sir.

Watch the video mate and learn. Prediction: You won't watch it;)

Newname wrote:

Sheepsville 101 wrote:

Video:www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoMAR9rOCrk

Of course this video is all BS, right? The bottom line is that anything that doesn't agree with your ignorant ideology is false, right? Watch the video and learn.

Don't think right wing, left wing or even dead center neutral.

Open your closed mind and learn something today. There are about 5 of you that really need help, serious help.

You took the jab, don't take it out on others for your poor choices. No person would ever wish that you got sick or died, that's ludicrous on too many levels to discuss.

If you are happy with your choice, then let it be. Why are you incessantly defending your poor choice?

A video from YouTube or GooTube or NoTube doesn't matter. It's the information that is being shared and the facts that are described. Voiding info because of a liberal site like YouTube doesn't make you look too bright sir.

Watch the video mate and learn. Prediction: You won't watch it;)

I simply listed facts. Based on the establishment's own numbers. More people died of Covid in 2021 after vaxxing was in place than in 2020 pre vaxxing. Lowly vaxxed nations fared far better than highly vaxxed nations. Non Covid excess deaths are up markedly since vaxxing began. These all on the face of them run counter to the narrative that vaccines are safe and effective. The pro vaxxers respond only with name calling.

Covidiocy wrote:

Harambe wrote:

The citations there are papers we’ve been over multiple times. You’ve even agreed that natural immunity wanes significantly and breadth is much worse than vaccines.
It’s over man. The vaccines won. The guy at the Cleveland clinic will keep putting out a rehash of his one database over and over but it doesn’t matter. Big Pharma won. Biden and Trump won.

Untrue. Only one of those citations has been discussed before that I’ve been a part of, the 2021 paper. I also do not agree that “breadth” is better with the vaccines or that natural, cell-mediated immunity wanes “significantly.” The only thing I’ve really agreed with you on, per that CDC paper you once posted, is that three doses of the vaccine PLUS infection is marginally better than NO doses of the vaccine plus infection. Marginally, for the time frames they assessed.

It’s actually quite incredible to me that people can’t agree or accept that the vaccines were necessary and even a good idea for a high risk portion of the population, which was easily assessed, but unnecessary for most others. Like, both positions can be true, but one either has to go ALL IN on being pro-vaccine or anti-vaccine.