This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
It's a time to reflect on how many innocent fathers were killed by the ignorant antivaxxers who refuse to acknowledge the overwhelming clinical evidence of vaccine safety and efficacy in an effort to own the libs. You all have blood on your hands.
I'm proud to say I will be on the right side of history.
Reminder We are over 3 years and almost 13 BILLION doses of the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines (including mRNA vaccines) given worldwide.
There have been NO mass deaths. NO mass side effects. NO research proving issues. NO widespread panic. NO mass birth defects. NO mass sterilizations. NO sweeping new government mandates. NO permanent lockdowns. NO permanent vaccine passports.
Anyone who's claiming that they were "proved right" about vaccine conspiracy nonsense are speaking from a place of profound paranoia and ignorance. The mRNA tech has proven itself a valid concept, anyone who says otherwise is living in a delusional land of podcasts and YT conspiracies.
Reminder We are over 3 years and almost 13 BILLION doses of the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines (including mRNA vaccines) given worldwide.
There have been NO mass deaths. NO mass side effects. NO research proving issues. NO widespread panic. NO mass birth defects. NO mass sterilizations. NO sweeping new government mandates. NO permanent lockdowns. NO permanent vaccine passports.
Anyone who's claiming that they were "proved right" about vaccine conspiracy nonsense are speaking from a place of profound paranoia and ignorance. The mRNA tech has proven itself a valid concept, anyone who says otherwise is living in a delusional land of podcasts and YT conspiracies.
Per official numbers:
More Covid deaths in USA in 2022 after massive vaxxing than in 2021.
Highly vaxxed nations fare far worse than lowly vaxxed ones.
These 2 facts destroy the lie that the jab saved lives.
Non covid deaths have risen sharply since the jab got introduced. Another fact. Mass deaths
To deny that there were vaccine mandates and lockdowns and that these lockdowns ruined many businesses and lives is delusional.
It's over. It was all lies and BS. Time to admit you fell for it
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
“It is now well-known that SARS-CoV-2 infection provides more robust protection than vaccination [4,11,12].”
The citations there are papers we’ve been over multiple times. You’ve even agreed that natural immunity wanes significantly and breadth is much worse than vaccines. It’s over man. The vaccines won. The guy at the Cleveland clinic will keep putting out a rehash of his one database over and over but it doesn’t matter. Big Pharma won. Biden and Trump won.
Untrue. Only one of those citations has been discussed before that I’ve been a part of, the 2021 paper. I also do not agree that “breadth” is better with the vaccines or that natural, cell-mediated immunity wanes “significantly.” The only thing I’ve really agreed with you on, per that CDC paper you once posted, is that three doses of the vaccine PLUS infection is marginally better than NO doses of the vaccine plus infection. Marginally, for the time frames they assessed.
It’s actually quite incredible to me that people can’t agree or accept that the vaccines were necessary and even a good idea for a high risk portion of the population, which was easily assessed, but unnecessary for most others. Like, both positions can be true, but one either has to go ALL IN on being pro-vaccine or anti-vaccine.
I’m making a point. If you believe everything the CDC puts out (I don’t and so many confounders per that most recent paper Harambe posted, plus questions in my mind about what is really creating new variants), then natural infection is actually quite good and almost, ALMOST just as good as three whole doses plus infection. For that time frame through the initial Omicron lineages, which then, themselves, conveyed the best immunity of all. Plus, frankly, breadth is more robust with natural infection.
But, for the naysayers who say getting infected was a stupid, high risk approach and not getting vaccinated cost some lives, they are correct, but ONLY with respect to high risk demographics. Also, we had plenty of on-label and off-label drugs that would’ve staved off those deaths and hospitalizations for those high risk people who elected nor to get vaccinated. So, it’s very disingenuous.
Reminder We are over 3 years and almost 13 BILLION doses of the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines (including mRNA vaccines) given worldwide.
There have been NO mass deaths. NO mass side effects. NO research proving issues. NO widespread panic. NO mass birth defects. NO mass sterilizations. NO sweeping new government mandates. NO permanent lockdowns. NO permanent vaccine passports.
Anyone who's claiming that they were "proved right" about vaccine conspiracy nonsense are speaking from a place of profound paranoia and ignorance. The mRNA tech has proven itself a valid concept, anyone who says otherwise is living in a delusional land of podcasts and YT conspiracies.
Per official numbers:
More Covid deaths in USA in 2022 after massive vaxxing than in 2021.
Highly vaxxed nations fare far worse than lowly vaxxed ones.
These 2 facts destroy the lie that the jab saved lives.
Non covid deaths have risen sharply since the jab got introduced. Another fact. Mass deaths
To deny that there were vaccine mandates and lockdowns and that these lockdowns ruined many businesses and lives is delusional.
It's over. It was all lies and BS. Time to admit you fell for it
You have no evidence for any of your claims. You absolute seething moron.
More Covid deaths in USA in 2022 after massive vaxxing than in 2021.
Highly vaxxed nations fare far worse than lowly vaxxed ones.
These 2 facts destroy the lie that the jab saved lives.
Non covid deaths have risen sharply since the jab got introduced. Another fact. Mass deaths
To deny that there were vaccine mandates and lockdowns and that these lockdowns ruined many businesses and lives is delusional.
It's over. It was all lies and BS. Time to admit you fell for it
You have no evidence for any of your claims. You absolute seething moron.
“Mass deaths” while we sit at 0 excess deaths. “Highly vaxxed nations” have BETTER excess death outcomes than lower vaxxed when controlling for age. 300k Americans dead who would be alive if they weren’t as stupid as you.
You kind and rhetoric caused hundreds of thousands of American men and women to die painful deaths. History books will put you along side the worst, mocked for centuries that a mass delusion could kill so many.
“Highly vaxxed nations” have BETTER excess death outcomes than lower vaxxed when controlling for age.
Why was there a maniacal push to vax everybody, regardless of age ?
Because death isn’t the only bad outcome from COVID? Severe disease is bad too! This isn’t that hard buddy. You’re in a hole, stuck, and commitment to dogma. It’s sad.
It’s actually quite incredible to me that people can’t agree or accept that the vaccines were necessary and even a good idea for a high risk portion of the population, which was easily assessed, but unnecessary for most others. Like, both positions can be true, but one either has to go ALL IN on being pro-vaccine or anti-vaccine.
It seems less incredible when one considers that you haven't provided much in the way of objective evidence to support the idea that the vaccine isn't a net benefit to all groups. Particularly when this seems contrary to everything I've seen.
Why was there a maniacal push to vax everybody, regardless of age ?
Because death isn’t the only bad outcome from COVID? Severe disease is bad too! This isn’t that hard buddy. You’re in a hole, stuck, and commitment to dogma. It’s sad.
Unvaxxed, healthy and strong after 916 days of "vaccine" availability.
I will happily stay stuck in a hole, committed to dogma and without worry about possible long term effects of the experimental mRNA goop.
Because death isn’t the only bad outcome from COVID? Severe disease is bad too! This isn’t that hard buddy. You’re in a hole, stuck, and commitment to dogma. It’s sad.
Unvaxxed, healthy and strong after 916 days of "vaccine" availability.
I will happily stay stuck in a hole, committed to dogma and without worry about possible long term effects of the experimental mRNA goop.
But not concerned about the far more abundant long term risks of COVID? Makes sense
Dr Peter Hotez, rumored to be in line for Fauci's or Walenski's job, has been challenged by Joe Rogan to debate RFK Jr in return for a donation of $100,000 by Rogan to the charity of Hotez's choice. Others have jumped in to raise the challenge to $250,000... and I read an unverified report that it was now up to $1,000,000... and Hotez has refused.
If Hotez is qualified for either job, and reports claim he is, then this should be easy money. Why isn't he taking up this challenge? It is an opportunity to directly rebutt the claims of someone he (Hotez) has called out for disinformation.
Why does he refuse to debate RFK Jr? He has to know that his refusal makes him look like he has something to hide.
Dr Peter Hotez, rumored to be in line for Fauci's or Walenski's job, has been challenged by Joe Rogan to debate RFK Jr in return for a donation of $100,000 by Rogan to the charity of Hotez's choice. Others have jumped in to raise the challenge to $250,000... and I read an unverified report that it was now up to $1,000,000... and Hotez has refused.
If Hotez is qualified for either job, and reports claim he is, then this should be easy money. Why isn't he taking up this challenge? It is an opportunity to directly rebutt the claims of someone he (Hotez) has called out for disinformation.
Why does he refuse to debate RFK Jr? He has to know that his refusal makes him look like he has something to hide.
this is very basic so try your best to understand. People that are experts in their fields of science and medical research are not debaters, performers or Howard Stern type talkers. The Debate that Joe Rogan and Musk are proposing is WWF style entertainment for people that don't want truth. They want to win a battle like a football game. There is only one person that would benefit and that is whoever was the loudest and hurled the most zingers, insults for their red meat loving fans. And the one that needed to add validity to his claims. Hotez does not need to do that. If you watch RFK jr that is who he is 100%.
In the age of propaganda and conspiracy theories, all you need to do is have one expert lower himself and talk about your crazy theories and it will add validity. And the more people that are talking about your conspiracy no matter how debunked it might have been, the more validity it obtains among true believers. This is how propaganda in Russia has worked for years. Just get people debating it and then truth is just a moving target and people's opinions are just as valid. Truth simply does not exist in Russia.
If RFK Jr has valid claims medical or scientific claims or theories why not get scientifically published? We know why. It is clear as day. It is sad you don't.
Let RFK JR engage in a debate where he had to go into detailed chemical processes on a molecular level with any disease scientist. He would be forbidden from citing anecdotal stories he has read and memorized or speed and loud talk any of his cherry picked statistics. He would be forced to talk very slowly and deliberately and prove the things he is saying with a pencil, paper, graphs. He would be forced to accept and answer follow up questions on chemical processes and not diverge from the topic to something else.
Dr Peter Hotez, rumored to be in line for Fauci's or Walenski's job, has been challenged by Joe Rogan to debate RFK Jr in return for a donation of $100,000 by Rogan to the charity of Hotez's choice. Others have jumped in to raise the challenge to $250,000... and I read an unverified report that it was now up to $1,000,000... and Hotez has refused.
If Hotez is qualified for either job, and reports claim he is, then this should be easy money. Why isn't he taking up this challenge? It is an opportunity to directly rebutt the claims of someone he (Hotez) has called out for disinformation.
Why does he refuse to debate RFK Jr? He has to know that his refusal makes him look like he has something to hide.
this is very basic so try your best to understand. People that are experts in their fields of science and medical research are not debaters, performers or Howard Stern type talkers. The Debate that Joe Rogan and Musk are proposing is WWF style entertainment for people that don't want truth. They want to win a battle like a football game. There is only one person that would benefit and that is whoever was the loudest and hurled the most zingers, insults for their red meat loving fans. And the one that needed to add validity to his claims. Hotez does not need to do that. If you watch RFK jr that is who he is 100%.
In the age of propaganda and conspiracy theories, all you need to do is have one expert lower himself and talk about your crazy theories and it will add validity. And the more people that are talking about your conspiracy no matter how debunked it might have been, the more validity it obtains among true believers. This is how propaganda in Russia has worked for years. Just get people debating it and then truth is just a moving target and people's opinions are just as valid. Truth simply does not exist in Russia.
If RFK Jr has valid claims medical or scientific claims or theories why not get scientifically published? We know why. It is clear as day. It is sad you don't.
Exactly. A podcast debate is a measure of rhetorical skill and experience; it has zero predictive value towards which side has better evidence. I’d love to see a back and forth written argument between RFKJ and Hotez, maybe with some chosen expert commentary (by both sides) too. But that wouldn’t score podcast $$$
this is very basic so try your best to understand. People that are experts in their fields of science and medical research are not debaters, performers or Howard Stern type talkers. The Debate that Joe Rogan and Musk are proposing is WWF style entertainment for people that don't want truth. They want to win a battle like a football game. There is only one person that would benefit and that is whoever was the loudest and hurled the most zingers, insults for their red meat loving fans. And the one that needed to add validity to his claims. Hotez does not need to do that. If you watch RFK jr that is who he is 100%.
In the age of propaganda and conspiracy theories, all you need to do is have one expert lower himself and talk about your crazy theories and it will add validity. And the more people that are talking about your conspiracy no matter how debunked it might have been, the more validity it obtains among true believers. This is how propaganda in Russia has worked for years. Just get people debating it and then truth is just a moving target and people's opinions are just as valid. Truth simply does not exist in Russia.
If RFK Jr has valid claims medical or scientific claims or theories why not get scientifically published? We know why. It is clear as day. It is sad you don't.
How about a debate between Hotez and Aseem Malhotra ? It won't happen because Hotez would refuse that too. An opponent employed in a relevant scientific or medical profession could provide a valuable counterpoint, but Hotez will not participate in a setting where he must engage in dialogue with a challenger. He is an establishment vax pusher who is uncomfortable with the non-compliant.