50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

[quote]Racerdb wrote:

The problem is my head. I still think 16:30...sub 17:00... doesn't sound that fast. The reality is I need to accept I'll never see the other side of 17 again. Hell, the way things have been going I may not see a sub 18 again!

Ditto here. Except add two minutes to all those times! Or subtract 15 years. But I'm getting better at accepting reality. At 43, I was shocked to not break 17:00. At 59, I was only very disappointed to not break 19:00. Ha!

Your smarty response to a rather generic post and the introduction of the topic from 12/17/2017:

Syracuse wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Outdoor training is getting challenging with morning temperatures in the lows 20s and late in the week a dusting of snow.

Igy

Sounds downright balmy. It would have to get a lot worse before I’d move indoors. I guess it all depends on what you’re used to.

Your most recent barage of troll posts and of course addressed to me (12/2/2018):

Great prose Cush. Felt like I was actually there suffering up 'the wall' one last loop, downing a few locals at Proof, riding that 6am flight to ATL chatting it up with Evan Jager. All last year with regrets of not being there this year. thanks for keeping us motivated and on point for what it's all about. Can't wait to do two years with local San Deigo west coast IPAs.

KP

Hey Allen....I've had two knee injuries (one on each knee) and MRIs on both. I had decent health insurance that paid 95% of the MRIs, and with no ionizing radiation it's a safe procedure (minus any dyes).

The first knee injury (L) was a fall during a race, quickly got back up to race pace and felt a tear somewhere in the anterior part of knee - race over. Didn't shows any signs of healing with RICE protocol over the next several weeks. Saw an orthopedic surgeon - clinical diagnosis was a torn medial meniscus. Surgery recommended and I declined. Started rehab protocol for meniscus tears but no improvement. Got my MRI and what do you know...no evidence of a meniscus tear but a strain of the patellar tendon was discovered (so much for clinical exams. Lol). Started patellar tendon rehab protocol and saw significant improvement over several weeks. Not 100% nor anywhere near pre-injury level. Some restrictions and discomfort with too much running.

Second knee problem (R) was pain & discomfort during physical activity and instability with the knee "giving out" on occasion. I self-diagnosed as some type of ligament damage or other structural damage. Saw a sports med doc who said no ligament damage and diagnosed it as patellofemoral pain syndrome (PFS). Again, rehab wasn't working so I got MRI #2. The finding was a degenerative ACL tear, as I suspected. Rehab for chronic ACL tears worked pretty well in controlling the discomfort when running but the knee is, as always will be, unstable. All the evidence suggests it will eventually go OA if it hasn't already started.

Mainly the rehab now is lots of leg extensions for the quads, leg curls for hamstrings, calf strengthening excercises, hip abductors, core excercises - all for getting the load off the knee joint and reducing the impact forces to the joints.

And so much for clinical exams (at least in my case. Lol). The power of the MRI and a good MSK Radiologist to interpret the images. I wanted to know what I'm up against because there are different types of rehab for different knee injuries. And the right rehab can make all the difference.

Squatty Old Runner wrote:

I wanted to know what I'm up against because there are different types of rehab for different knee injuries. And the right rehab can make all the difference.

Wow, thanks for that info. Not sure if it leaves me feeling more hopeful or more discouraged. Correct diagnosis is key, but how likely?

Your current rehab protocol sounds like what I did to get past the runner's knee woes, and to return to competition this past year.

Unfortunately, I'm not seeing the same results this time around.

I'm self-employed but have decent (and pricey -- $900/month out-of-pocket) insurance through my wife's employer. PT visits are $20 copay. Recent hand surgery was maybe $50 diagnostics, $25 initial surgeon consult, $100 surgery). Dunno about MRI costs etc.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

The key is frustration tolerance.

I do believe you've hit the nail on the head. I, too, find it really frustrating that what used to be my easy recovery day pace is now faster than I can race a 5K. But I keep doing it because I really like running and because my age-group cohort keeps slowing down with me and/or dropping out of racing completely. While I'm now running slightly worse on an age-graded scale than I ran in my early 30s, the depth of competition is so much less that I usually win my age group. Mostly, I'm just thankful to be fundamentally healthy and still able to run at age 60, and I'm going to enjoy it for as long as I can.

There are good days and bad ones. Sunday I truncated a planned 20-mile run to 16 miles and was utterly trashed by the end. No particular reason, I just didn't have it that weekend. I took yesterday completely off from running (spun the bike trainer easy for 80 minutes), got a solid 7.5 hours of sleep last night, and woke up this morning feeling great. I didn't need to be anywhere early this morning, and it was not raining for the first time in several days (40 degrees and breezy), so I blasted through 13 miles feeling like a champion. As long as I have days like today I'm gonna keep going.

Goals are important to maintaining enthusiasm to train and although racing is usually the focus there are others. One of my favorite runs is Hulls Gutch and when I can’t run it I hike. From the Boise Downtown YMCA the usual loop is 9.75 miles. Charlie will like this, here is a snap shot on a mountain bike:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ppQO4nZHsE

My son was life flighted out of the foothills after a severe bike accident in 2011 (concussion and three days in ICU). So I just run or hike. The trail follows a creek and with spring run off is pretty. Currently making fitness to run the loop a goal. I am guessing about 500-700 foot elevation climb with most of it the last two miles to the high point. Currently a couple of months away from running the entire Hulls.

Oops, must have touched a nerve. Anyway, thanks for proving my point.

Second video is somewhat longer and gives a better view of the elevation loss.

CM: Don't live in these neck of the woods?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47136308

Sorry about that CM, I meant to ask don't you live in these neck of the woods where this cougar attacked occurred? (these stupid smartphones that I do all my posting from seem to skip words a lot even after proofreading.. ?).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47136308

Cougar Country - I grew up near there and also live a dozen years in FC as a grad student and for work. Live in very similar habitat at 7K feet, we have a herd where 200 elk in the neighborhood and dozens of very tame deer that pass through daily. And there are mountain lions around, so I'm aware and cautious. I do go to a nearby park on my own but stay on an access road rather than trail and avoid sunrise/sunset.

syracuse - not sure what the point of the survey was, but tweaked my training this week to avoid a snow day. Yesterday was 48 degrees and it's been warm enough to melt the snow in non-shaded areas. So rather than a 20 min tempo with strides today (expecting snow and messy conditions) I did 3X 1 mile on sandy trails with short recovery (one bad shady stretch of ice of about 300 m). My opinion is to you work around the weather and schedule with some flexibility, not headlong into it to be tough.

Maybe I have posted this before, but with a bout of sleet that we had here in KC yesterday, and a forecast of more possible today and/or tomorrow, here's our take on running in "cold" winter weather (my wife and i). Many years ago we were out for a run after snow dropped an inch or so, in maybe 25 degree weather. Rounded a curve and my wife's foot slid out from her because we could not see the ice that had formed overnight on that low spot. She landed on her elbow, and fractured her shoulder socket. Nearly had a concussion as she just missed bouncing her head on the pavement, too. Took a month for her to be able to fasten her own bra again. Plus we had zero insurance as poor college students. Plus she now has some OA in that shoulder socket. Plus, I was the one to suggest that she run at that spot, rather than where is was putting her feet. So I am the one who must live with that, too.

Bottom line, we'd rather run safe than sorry, and missing a day's running isn't the end of the world any more, but missing her running with me because of injury is something I certainly don't want. After 35+ years of marriage, her daily companionship is very near and dear to me. Call me an old softy, but I'm still in love with her and with our running.

Mike Lundgren wrote:

Many years ago we were out for a run after snow dropped an inch or so, in maybe 25 degree weather. Rounded a curve and my wife's foot slid out from her because we could not see the ice that had formed overnight on that low spot. She landed on her elbow, and fractured her shoulder socket. Nearly had a concussion as she just missed bouncing her head on the pavement, too. Took a month for her to be able to fasten her own bra again. Plus we had zero insurance as poor college students. Plus she now has some OA in that shoulder socket. Plus, I was the one to suggest that she run at that spot, rather than where is was putting her feet. So I am the one who must live with that, too.

22 years ago, when living in upstate New York, I went out for a run on a typical February morning--temp in the 20s and snowing lightly. Apparently I hit an unseen patch of ice and crashed pretty badly. I say apparently because I did suffer a concussion and had zero memory of the accident. I also fractured my humerus just below the shoulder. I managed to walk carefully home, thought about trying to drive myself to the hospital in my stick shift car, and decided against it. I called 911 and got an ambulance ride to the hospital. The arm eventually healed fully, but living alone as a one-armed person was no joke. I think I went braless for several weeks...Anyway, after that I got a lot more careful about running outdoors when the footing might be bad. I can't run on a treadmill, but I did have access to a decent indoor track which I used a lot more for the rest of my time there.

Nothing funny about a fractured humerus...yuck, yuck.

This morning at 5:30 am we had similar conditions to the workout that resulted in a fall for one of my buds. Started the workout with temperatures around 30. By the time we hit our hill at the Boise VA it started to snow. Just firm enough in consistency that everyone stayed on their feet. I was careful transitioning to cement from asphalt and on corners.

I can't run on a treadmill either. Balance issues, feel unstable and anxiety that I'm going to fall off ?...same with you?

Not a treadmill person wrote:

I can't run on a treadmill either. Balance issues, feel unstable and anxiety that I'm going to fall off ?...same with you?

Sort of. I naturally have a very pronounced arm swing which I haven't been able to "cure", and on a treadmill I always smash my hands against the side rails and/or the front console. Or else I run off the belt to the front, back, or sides. It requires every ounce of concentration I can muster to run on a treadmill even at a very slow pace, and I can't keep it up for long.

I am also clumsy on uneven ground (trails, etc.) and have pretty much given up on running on any surface except smooth dirt or pavement (or a track). Fortunately I have access to plenty of smooth surfaces when running from home. And I now live where it doesn't snow, so winter is not a problem.

amkelley wrote:

22 years ago, when living in upstate New York, I went out for a run on a typical February morning--temp in the 20s and snowing lightly. Apparently I hit an unseen patch of ice and crashed pretty badly. I say apparently because I did suffer a concussion and had zero memory of the accident. I also fractured my humerus just below the shoulder.

Much less serious in my case, but your Upstate NY story brings to mind a predawn run in Genesee Valley Park many years ago (near the U of R). With a fresh three inches of snow, I didn't see a curb step-off, and unexpectedly landed hard on my right foot. That somehow injured my right hip. I continued to train and race the entire track season, with ever-increasing hip pain. By the championship meet, I could barely walk. Really put a damper on my one-and-only collegiate season (senior year was the only year I was able to schedule time for track).

BTW, I was disappointed that you weren't able to race that 20-miler recently. I had been looking forward to seeing the results of your training. I really find it astounding and impressive that you're successfully logging 70+ miles per week! Wow! When is that marathon you're eyeing?