Frank Meza 2:53:10 at LA Marathon (70 years old) unofficial time (just finished)

Don’t play poker against Doubler!

doubler wrote:

Thank you very much! It is appreciated. More to come on Frank this week..

Is Marathon Investigations a 501(c)(3)?

Just imagine:

You're a world class elite 70+ runner (like Ed or Gene).

You push your body to the absolute limits during both training and race, endure pain for hours, sometimes in extreme heat, to win the race and set the record.

And someone on a bike perfectly paces himself just enough to beat you every time, no matter how hard you try.

negativesplitter wrote:

doubler wrote:

Thank you very much! It is appreciated. More to come on Frank this week..

Is Marathon Investigations a 501(c)(3)?

No, reader contributions are not tax deductible. They are not ‘donations’ through PayPal.

FYI, I made a $5.00 donation. It was going to be $20.00. I could not get away from the $5.00 only choice, and I tried. It never occured to me to repeat the $5.00 .. 3 more times, until now. But first a long run this am, along the SART.

Just imagine: wrote:

Just imagine:

You're a world class elite 70+ runner (like Ed or Gene).

You push your body to the absolute limits during both training and race, endure pain for hours, sometimes in extreme heat, to win the race and set the record.

And someone on a bike perfectly paces himself just enough to beat you every time, no matter how hard you try.

There's got to be something in the back of a cheaters mind eating away at them, just knowing that they're a fraud, and that they might get caught.

I have to imagine the people that put in the work, experience the trials and tribulations, the pain and suffering, the injuries and setbacks, and fulfill their goals, or at least give 100% trying, even if they come up short, get so much more out of the experience.

Roderick Powell wrote:

FYI, I made a $5.00 donation. It was going to be $20.00. I could not get away from the $5.00 only choice, and I tried. It never occured to me to repeat the $5.00 .. 3 more times, until now. But first a long run this am, along the SART.

Thank you Roderick!

I agree. The truth is slowly being revealed. To the poster who made a mention of me liking a video of Frank Meza. That video is heartbreaking, in light of what I now know. I had only seen 1 video of Frank until the past year or so. (the diabetes video) The video I apparently liked used to be just a minute or so. Only recently, since this thread started, have I seen the longer 5 or so minute long video. Funny thing, I had assumed Frank was gay until I saw that video. (nothing against gays) I am not gay. I can see me liking that video. I believe seeing that video brought me from my doubts after seeing all the evidene presented on LR. (for a short while) Until seeing Derek's articles, I still had a smidge of doubt. To that poster, It brought the timeline of me being a Frank Meza "fan" into clearer focus. 41 years after a marathon I ran in high school, (I needed to bonk it twice to be convinced) I ran the Seal Beach 10k in 2015. It was probably a year after that I had been introduced to Athlinks, and the ability to compare myself to others. Thus I found out about Frank Meza. It is that simple. I posted this thread (and the 2:53:54 post) believing I was saying to the Frank Meza accusers ...look at this and stop accusing him. It never entered my mind that these accusers were right and I was wrong about Frank. Truth be said, proof that is about Frank not being photographed or seen in a video, is not enough yet for me to go from 99.9% convinced to 100%. Obviously Frank Meza fessing up would do the trick. Lastly, I posted many photos from past races. The bombardment of info is my personal style of investigation. Seems much was revealed, much more than I expected.

Roderick, you are still one crazy dude. I'm talking about this line: "Truth be said, proof that is about Frank not being photographed or seen in a video, is not enough yet for me to go from 99.9% convinced to 100%." Why this fixation on a confession? Can you not (for instance) follow the logic in the Marathon Investigation video, agree that he would have to appear in the video if he legitimately ran the time he ran, and also agree that he does not appear in the video? THAT'S ENOUGH!! Even more so when you take into consideration all the other evidence amassed against him. Frank Meza cheated - just get it through your head. A confession will not change anything. After all, he could confess, but his confession could be a lie, all part of the great conspiracy to bring down Frank Meza - a conspiracy so diabolical that even Meza himself is part of it.

Yes, it's almost as if Roderick is a little insane.

Frank decides to run a race. To do that he has to run from A to B. There is a video camera at one section and that section is compulsory to run if he wants to claim to have completed the course. The video camera is running continuously and Frank cannot be seen at any point, anywhere on film.

Most logical people's conclusion. Frank didn't run that section of the course.

Roderick Powell's conclusion: There is still a 0.1% possiblility that Frank did run that section of course, but was invisible at the time.

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Sorry, I'm with Roderick on this one. There is always some other possible explanation, although very unlikely. Like that video was the previous year and was indexed wrong or something. Again, 1/1000 chance doesn't take much.

btw, I teach statistics and we never ever get to 100.0000000000 %

What's wrong with Roderick's statement of 99.9%? That's more than the "beyond a reasonable doubt" burden of proof needed for a murder conviction in a court of law (98%-99% certainty). In essence, you've got an insurmountable amount of circumstantial evidence, a motive, and a body, but you just don't have witnesses or the murder weapon. It's still enough to convict.

I was peripherally linked to the Loyola HS world & thus to FM, asst. coach on XC team.

No one at Loyola with whom I ever spoke had any suspicions about his running or records. Everyone assumed he was legit. The "fact" that FM had records as a marathoner for his age was considered a cool, interesting anecdote (which, yes, arguably bolstered his own credentials as a long-distance coach).

According to those more in the know, FM did not run long distances with the team (10-13 mile runs) during practice. He would warm up, but not do the full work-outs. When asked, a LHS runner said he never saw FM run at anything more than a jaunty shuffle during practice (c. 8:30-9 minute/mile pace)... but again, that triggered no suspicions, because FM was liked if not beloved, and most of us assume that most other people don't lie & cheat (which perhaps partly explains why/how cheaters & liars get away with it...).

FM's photo & email are still up on the LHS website, and my impression is that this controversy has yet to register with the school.

Roderick wasn't talking it strict statistical terms though, like some of the anal pedants just previous to this post are.

He said he himslef wasn't 100% convinced. Which means he still harbours some doubt. That is not the same thing as abstractly asserting that there is very rarely a 100% certainty about anything.

Frankly, if any runner, after watching the video and taking into account all the other evidence on Frank, still harbors doubts, then they are either being wilfully stupid, or actually are stupid.

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Very interesting insight.

As for the bolded part, I imagine that will shortly change as no doubt many helpful individuals here will be providing them with links to Frank's new extended "fame" on Derek's site.

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Believe me, I understand the concept that nothing can ever be truly proven. No matter how well-established a "fact" may be, there is always some doubt. For example, I think that when I turn the faucet handle on my sink (or any sink, for that matter), that is what causes the water to come streaming out. When I turn the handle the other way, the water turns off.

Everybody else seems to have the same experience. However, technically we could potentially all be wrong, and the water actually just turns on and off by random chance, which just happens to have coincided with our faucet handle turnings throughout history.

Or, as we discussed in Philosophy 101, there could be an "Arch Deceiver", an omnipotent deity who tricks us into believing things that aren't true.

Or there could be some sort of quantum-level weirdness.

But, as much as I like to discuss matters of philosophy, in most practical areas of life we can ignore this inability for anyone to prove anything 100%. I don't REALLY doubt that turning the faucet handle is what causes the water to come out, and I don't REALLY doubt that Frank Meza cheated repeatedly.

Thanks for chiming in. This is very enlightening. I imagine Kip is also well-respected in his community. And multisport super cheater Julie Miller is still a university Mental Health Counselor.

doubler wrote:

For these point to point courses it would not be difficult to drive as close to possible to the timing mat, jump in 1/4 mile before and jump off shortly after crossing, return to your car and repeat.

This is a perfect example of the value of a random video camera or a random timing mat.

The card house collapses. Thank you very much. For what it's worth:

1. In every race should be random video cameras, and it would be a good idea to hide at least one.

2. Random timing mats are a must have. To miss a mat leads to DQ. The runners are informed about this when they sign in.

3. Every fraud is sanctioned. Especially in this serious case of repetition, it is my personal conviction that it is legitimate to impose a lifelong suspension. This man should not be allowed to take part in a registered road race again.

I don't agree with this, though I would certainly support a reasonable period of suspension (say 1-2 years) from competition. Larger question that I've been mulling: I am firmly against cowtowing to the mob mentality and people losing their jobs for doing stupid stuff- however, I do question whether this is serious enough to disqualify him from coaching HS kids? Obviously I'm not advocating he lose his employment as a physician, but doing something that requires him to be a form of role model for youth, I'm not sure his behavior allows for that. Thoughts?

Good news!! wrote:

3. Every fraud is sanctioned. Especially in this serious case of repetition, it is my personal conviction that it is legitimate to impose a lifelong suspension. This man should not be allowed to take part in a registered road race again.

Also, thanks to everyone donating to derek, I think he really knocked it out of the park on this one, Thanks for all the work you put into this derek.