why does David Roche keep banging on about being in sub-4 at altitude shape?

he's not even more successful than Dean Karnazes

"Once upon a time, winning a race—say, Leadville or Javelina—meant you had won the race. The stopwatch ticked, the finisher’s tape snapped, and the result was recorded. But we do not live in such naïve times.

We live in the age of competing media repertoires, where truth is no longer a matter of reality but of which data source, which narrative, which discourse happens to be most persuasive in the moment.

Enter David Roche.

Jean-François Lyotard tells us that postmodernity is the collapse of grand narratives. The idea that a race win is self-evident? A relic of modernity. Now, all that matters is the micro-narrative, the shifting discourse, the presentation of truth. And in this new epistemology—one that we are watching unfold in real time on LetsRun—David’s victories are not real unless they conform to the right data sources. His training is not real unless it aligns with the most exacting standards of a self-appointed jury of skeptics, amateur analysts, and forensic GPS examiners.

It is no longer enough to run the miles. One must run them in the proper register, within the accepted media repertoire, in full compliance with the ever-expanding surveillance expectations of a sports-tracking panopticon.

And if one fails to do so? Well, then the victories didn’t happen. Or they did, but only in a way that is suspect, compromised, never quite legitimate.

We all know what comes next:
'Did he even exist at those races?'
'Was it really him crossing the finish line, or an AI-generated deepfake?'
'Can we be sure those results weren’t manipulated?'

In the postmodern condition, nothing is ever fully verifiable, and every accomplishment is always, already under erasure."

Dean K. v. David R - who's the GOAT:

"It depends on how you define 'success' in running.
Dean Karnazes is a well-known ultrarunner, famous for extreme endurance feats like running 50 marathons in 50 states in 50 days and running 350 miles without sleep. He has a massive mainstream following, bestselling books, and significant media presence. His success is more about endurance exploits and bringing ultrarunning to a broader audience.
David Roche is an elite trail runner and coach with national championship titles and strong performances in shorter trail races (e.g., USATF Trail National Championships).
His success lies in competitive results and coaching (he trains many top athletes).
If you define success by fame, media presence, and sheer endurance challenges, Karnazes wins. If you go by competitive results and impact as a coach, Roche has a strong case."

Dean may fake coyote attacks, but he never messes with run data.

A western states win ought to put David over the line, at least for success based on competitive results.

He will not only have to beat Jim Walmsley and the GOAT Kilian Jornet, but also:

- Hayden Hawks, who is self-reportedly in the best shape of his life and just ran a trail 50K with 4,000 feet of elevation gain at 6:10 mile pace. Close 3rd place last year while coming off an injury.
- Dan Jones, Hayden's training partner who just ran a trail 100K at the same event with 7,400 feet of elevation gain at 6:48 mile pace. 4th place at states last year. Notably beat 2nd place Adrian Macdonald by 34 minutes, the same guy who got 2nd behind David at Leadville (by a smaller margin).
- Rod Farvard, who led Jim for much of Western States last year.
- Seth Ruhling, who just set the course record at Black Canyon 100K, beating Hayden's record from last year by 6 minutes.
- 20 other top pros who are returning top 10 from last year or golden ticket winners this year. Many of these runners are currently going through the same "performance breakthroughs" as David but are doing it quietly and without fanfare.

Furthermore, David has expressed interest in "leading from the gun" and "putting a huge gap on Kilian and Jim by the top of the escarpment" which is, uhhh... an interesting strategy.

Just got so psyched for WS so thanks for that! I guess from a “pot stirring” perspective David is doing a good job at it. But maybe let the pot simmer for a little bit. It’s February…

Dean K has run WS eleven times. all under 24 hours. going to take David R a while to catch up.

Dean K is another questionable character in the ultra zoo. 12 WS finishes, but never even a podium, so I'd say that so far DR has more ultra achievements by virtue of being the L100 record holder.

Must be more of a Goggins fan, but he doesn’t have the badwater victory.

You won the races, bro. No one's denying that. You're a very accomplished runner and coach. But why did you have to make up the sh*t about being able to run a sub-4 at altitude? Drop the pretentious postmodern disquisition and just admit, "yeah, I got a little carried away in some interviews," and I think (most) people would just let it go. But when you treat yourself as a messiah who is always righteous and whose critics are always in the wrong, people will pile on.

Also, what's with the talking about yourself in the third person, bro?

has anyone questioned him about why he uses his phone for outdoor runs and his watch for treadmill runs on his strava? like, just ask a general question as if asking for advice...

It suggests he believes that the iPhone app is more accurate than the watch he uses, and the watch (indoors on a treadmill) is more accurate than the treadmill reading. At least that’s one reading of this. maybe he has a second rate treadmill/watch b/c the phone apps are generally horrible.

It is a well known fact that the Strava iPhone app inflates your distance compared to a more accurate GPS watch. For example, on a 20-mile run I got about an extra 0.5 mile longer in distance when tracking on my iPhone compared to my Garmin.

Likewise, he does not have a 'second rate' treadmill. He has a brand new Wahoo Kickr. That he specifically mentions is "fully calibrated"

What it suggests is that David wants to do anything and everything possible to inflate his training pace splits to appear more impressive to his gullible followers online.

Because he wants to believe he can do something that that Jim and Kilian can't do. They are all about the same age and its seems very important for David to think of himself as being in the same conversation with these two greats.

David's Leadville CR is impressive and an amazing performance, but it isn't 2023 UTMB where Jim broke Kilian's 2022 CR. Sorry, but one race is the pinnacle of the sport and the other is great but second-tier course with no prize money or qualification standards.

This will all sort itself out in late June.

But not the 4:00/mile part. Driving to a high school track and doing four or so laps very, very quickly would be way to hard to actually do it real life. Especially without the Strava app to measure your distance.

Runs on a $4,999 Wahoo Kickr treadmill. Per Strava, he also has a Garmin Forerunner 745.

I think his equipment is just fine.

That’s interesting because one thing Roche is not is great at uphill and ascending, not his strength.

Pretty sure it indicates he doesn’t have faith in their readings. maybe cheap electronic components or something.

It would be great if other trail and ultra podcasts, like The Boulder Boys would mention this on their platforms. If/when they talk about David, they should bring up the point that he chooses Strava and his watch when it will make him look faster. It’s been said to exhaustion by now, but, dude, you are not the fastest and you don’t need to be. If you’re a coach, be a good coach. If you want to win, train and leave it out there in the race. People will find you much more pleasant if you weren’t so freaking desperate and show yourself to be a liar. You and Megan both try to make yourselves look unbeatable, but neither of you are. You just come across as cheats. You don’t like that? Then just stop. Do your workouts and stop pretending they are something they aren’t. And be better coaches if you are going to continue taking people’s money.