50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Coyote Montane wrote:

..."cramming" for the test just doesn't work.

whattaya mean cramming doesn't work--i got my undergraduate degree doing just that ;)

and, i won't lie--i've tried it with running on occasion, and yeah, you're right, it doesn't work. however, you can make every workout count and train with greater precision in a short amount of time, and that can have a positive effect. because i just like the actual activity of running, i don't always train with great precision since that can sometimes take the fun out of running, but as national meets creep up and/or recovering from injuries happen, i will go through periods of where i'm a little more disciplined about what i'm doing...

...like now. while i know there's no way i can make up for the lost 2 months of training during the summer--especially as it pertains to this cross country season--i've tried to make every workout count, which also meant racing more carefully and not tapering for anything. the hard part of this is i'll be going into spokane with some confidence in my fitness based on workouts done, but very little confidence in my racing chops. we'll see how that plays out in a couple of weeks...

so, for example: the last 10 days i did a 4 mile tempo at 5:40 pace (friday); a local x-c 8k in 29:41 (sunday--a challenging course, i think a little long); a solid tuesday night track session with a 2:00 800m swede, hanna hermannson, 4x600 at around 1:45-1:48 with 90 seconds rest, 6x400 at 69-70 (i only did 4 of the 400s); a 5k turkey trot on thursday in 16:20-ish (their clock gave me a faster time, but i'm pretty sure they were a good 10 seconds off for nearly everyone); and finally 12 miles today with 8 miles @ 6 minute pace. overall volume was solid, and higher quality workout frequency than normal since i've turned 50, but neither races were 100% efforts and i felt ok today. i'll really only have one more hard workout (tuesday night) before i back off the next 11 days before spokane. again, we'll see how it plays out in a couple of weeks...

sorry to hear about those of you who are still ailing, but i'm also looking forward to seeing some of you at clubs, and maybe even enjoy some post-race beverages together--look for the cal-coast runners (i'm hoping we have a heated tent) and i'm sure i can rummage up drink for you...

carpe crepusculum,

cush

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I have been running tempo pace at about 9:00/mile gradually increasing the distance from 2 miles up to a total of 3 miles. My 5k pace my last race was 9:11/mile after falling off 8:30/mile pace. So I am going back down to two mile total volume while increasing the pace to 8:30/mile. I will may stay longer at this volume until the pace of the interval improves. The scheduled session for Monday morning will be 4 x 800m @ 4:15 with 2:00 time rest between. The thought process is I need to segment the training into a smaller unit that is manageable at a faster pace.

I hate going out on a limb and think others could make suggestions….but….Refocusing the target of an LT of 8:30 makes sense. Then progressively either adding 1 or 2 more 800’s and/or reducing the rest time gets the LT down (assuming the target is 8:30 pace for a 5K). But, it’s easy to overthink it. You already improved over August, so you must be doing something right.

I seemed to be banned.

Rtype,

That is what I am thinking as well. It was a struggling just running the distance the past few months. Only recently could I run two miles without stopping. I am getting longer tempo like work in my foothill runs. I believe working at a little faster short tempo pace will help both my mechanics and confidence. I will try the suggestion reducing the rest first before I add reps. So this week I will go the 2:00 down to 1:45, eventuallly to 1:00, then adding reps. Sound reasonable?

Igy

mp’pac,

I can send you some contact help emails if you need them.

Igy

KP wrote:

Dave,

Bummer no Club Nats for you/your team. Was looking forward to buying you a good IPA at Iron Goat Brewery.

KP

Thanks KP. Maybe next year?

lucKY2b wrote:

Greetings, 50+ers! Sad to say that I'm still not recovered....... Hopefully, in December we'll turn things around.

l2b: Hope you get this figured out soon. Lets both make December our turn around month!

My running funk continues. No offense to the 70 year olds out there but I feel like a broken down 70 year old! I ditched the Garmin last week and I'm just getting the time in. Its just not feeling good.

So last week after I walked home from my run Sunday, I took Mon & Tue off then just jogged 2 miles on Wed. I actually felt ok at the Turkey Trot Thursday. The 24 degrees didn't seem to bother me. First mile felt easy at 6:18. I started behind a bunch of high schoolers in about 10-12th place early on. Gradually started passing most of them with a 6:01 and 6:02 2nd & 3rd mile. Ended up 3rd in 18:51. So...even though that was a new All-Time personal worse 5k by 29 seconds, I actually felt pretty good about it. My last two miles got me thinking there may still be hope for me yet!

I decided to suspend any sort of training plan and just run. My goal is to shoot for an hour a day at what ever pace it takes. I need to get a few months of consistency around 50 miles/wk before I can start thinking about anything else.

Going down swinging,

Dave

Similar thoughts but so far down the fitness track it is almost as if I never ran before. Running my entire warm-up and cool-down is a moral victory. That was my experience today anyway as I failed to execute the hard portion of the plan. What can you do really? Adjust and move on.

Igy

M: swimming 1000m.

T: 5 miles.

W: 5 miles.

R: off.

F: 5 miles.

SA: 5 miles.

SU: 6 miles.

So I managed to run five times a week for a total of 26 miles. That's improvement from 17 miles in four runs in the previous week. The next goal is to run six times a week, and then after that increase volume on each day.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Similar thoughts but so far down the fitness track it is almost as if I never ran before. Running my entire warm-up and cool-down is a moral victory. That was my experience today anyway as I failed to execute the hard portion of the plan. What can you do really? Adjust and move on.

Igy

Hey Igy hope you do not mind me chiming in...

I like Racerdb's plan building up to an hour with easy running kinda what I have been doing for a month or so and I feel pretty good of course I am only running 20 minutes a day easy to medium by feel but so far so good. I supplement with easy bike rides and walking and if I go further than 20 minutes I run/walk with no regard to pace.

IMO running really hard without a good base can over stress the immune and nervous systems.

My main goal is to be able to enjoy injury pain free running of longer distances only then will I contemplate the fast stuff. However if I feel good I pick it up but still at an enjoyable level.

Charlie, in my opinion, you have the proper mentality. I wish you well.

Charlie,

Thanks I appreciate the advice. It makes sense that volume emphasis should be my focus. Daniels recommends early full recovery repetitions to works on mechanics. So my initial thought was one day tempos and one day repetitions with the balance easy running and walking. Perhaps I am just not ready for that step yet. Certainly don’t think it would be wise to put undue stress on my body.

Igy

Cush,

The good news about how long it's gonna take me to get around the Spokane 10k XC Snow-Covered Loops with my busted hammy/mediocre fitness/beer gut is that the brewski you're offering should still be cold. I'll buy at Iron Goat Brewery later on.

KP

p.s. to all... Better Late Than Never? After at least a 5-year absence, today I re-started Chris Cook's "Cookie-Core" and can barely mash this keyboard. Yes, I'm hoping it will be my crash course to easier hold my IPA at Spokane.

It was been a pretty eventful 10 days, starting with waking up in Minnesota to a 10-below wind chill the Sunday before Thanksgiving. We had gone up for her brother's birthday and I'd seen in the forecast that it would be a brisk 9 ABOVE on Sunday morning, so had planned to long run in long johns. But 10 below ... even I have my limits.

On Tuesday we got a text from the grandkids en route from Chicago: Is Thanksgiving going to be TOTALLY vegan? Well, I'm not going to rain on anyone's Macy's parade, so I went to Whole Foods and got a 12-pounder. Brine, rinse, roast, baste once, carve, make gravy ... honestly, it's the second easiest Thanksgiving item to make (the first is uncanning the jellied cranberries into the serving dish). They said it was delicious.

On Thanksgiving Day I paced my wife to her first-ever 5K finish, with three grandchildren also running. Considering she had a mitral valve replacement in August 2017 it's a real achievement for her. After decades of walking most every day, she's getting a real kick out of jogging, but she has no interest in adopting my nutty lifestyle, which now includes two hours a week in the unheated garage doing elliptical. (I think half the reason I love this elliptical is that we found it on the street ... but it is pretty great to walk out of the house and 60 seconds later be working out to a podcast or Youtube.)

Dave and Allen - I think my break will be somewhere between 1 and 15 days, but I will take one after this current cycle which ends in late January. Unless, that is, I decide to compete in the Butterworth Indoor Relays in Wichita ...

MG, I don't see the harm in sugar or even oil in very modest quantities. If you're planning to eat plant-based for a long long time, then enjoy it. You're saying no to dairy and meat, say yes to sugar and oil. I will say I've cut out stir fries, mostly because the bride has gotten tired of them, and I've reduced the oil in my breads and when making popcorn. But these are tweaks. We're making a permanent shift and aren't looking for weight reduction, though I'll admit I'd really like to get her LDL under 100 and that's why I'm reducing oil where I think it won't reduce flavor.

I'm base training for a 10K in late January. I'll run an underground 5K in a couple of weeks. After that there's a 9K in Newton, Kansas, I might run in lieu of a hard workout.

Su 11/18 - Long Run in MN (after the mercury reached 20) - 7 miles easy then 1.5 miles tempo

Mo 11/19 - 30 minutes elliptical

Tu 11/20 - 3.75 miles easy then 2.25 miles tempo + 15' elliptical

We 11/21 - 6 miles easy + 45' elliptical

Th 11/22 - 5K + 45' easy run

Fr 11/23 - Fartleks 7 x 1 minute hard + 2 minutes easy; also 30' elliptical + circuits

Sa 11/24 - 8 miles easy + 20' elliptical

Su 11/25 - Long Run (before the blizzard) - 6.5 miles easy then 2 miles tempo

5:45 of running but 9:10 total training for the week, 10% at medium/high intensity.

Back to running after more than 20 years away from the sport... let the next chapter begin!

Step One: Rebuild the infrastructure, and reset the busted-ass biomechanics... a.k.a. learn to run again.

Step Two: see step one

ghost_coach wrote:

Back to running after more than 20 years away from the sport... let the next chapter begin!

Why were you away from the sport for so long?

ghost_coach wrote:

Step One: Rebuild the infrastructure, and reset the busted-ass biomechanics... a.k.a. learn to run again.

I wouldn't think you would have to spend a lot of time rebuilding the infrastructure - you should be fresh as a daisy? (unless weight is an issue?).

Yes, a little more biography please!

I'm not a coach, and I'm probably still more newbie than you, but my advice is slow down and build your volume gradually. Your body will figure out the rest.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Similar thoughts but so far down the fitness track it is almost as if I never ran before. Running my entire warm-up and cool-down is a moral victory. That was my experience today anyway as I failed to execute the hard portion of the plan. What can you do really?

Igy, at the risk of going to the obvious point, have you sought out medical advice from a doctor who actually understands running and fitness?

KCgeezer wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Similar thoughts but so far down the fitness track it is almost as if I never ran before. Running my entire warm-up and cool-down is a moral victory. That was my experience today anyway as I failed to execute the hard portion of the plan. What can you do really?

Igy, at the risk of going to the obvious point, have you sought out medical advice from a doctor who actually understands running and fitness?

KCgeezer,

I run 2-4 times a week with my endocrinologist friend that initially diagnosed my lymphoma. His view is generally you may or may not ever be the same, but do what you can do. Although I do think he is surprised at how far I have come. If you recall from earlier posts it was difficult running 100 meters by the end of chemo. After radiation therapy took a step back but not as far. I am now six weeks post radiation therapy. I have managed to run or walk every day of November but three. If anything probably need more easy days.

Thanks.

Igy

Inquiring minds want to know wrote:

ghost_coach wrote:

Back to running after more than 20 years away from the sport... let the next chapter begin!

Why were you away from the sport for so long?

ghost_coach wrote:

Step One: Rebuild the infrastructure, and reset the busted-ass biomechanics... a.k.a. learn to run again.

I wouldn't think you would have to spend a lot of time rebuilding the infrastructure - you should be fresh as a daisy? (unless weight is an issue?).

Short version: Injury in college forced me out, and I took up rowing as a way to rehab... fell in love with the sport and stayed with it all through college. After that... Mark Allen, Dave Scott, and Scott Tinley inspired me to try this "new" sport called Triathlon. Triathlon became a fucking over-hype, over-priced joke that has nothing to do about the race anymore, so why not cycling. Got up to a CAT-2 road classification, and simply got tired of all the doping scandals (amateurs are worse)... that and the fact that motorists want to kill every cyclist they see as if in a video game.

I have unfinished business on the oval... and I feel it's time to reinvest in the dream.

Hopefully I can share the journey with like-minded masters!