Pro-tip: if your 'finest military the world had ever seen' gets absolutely stomped in under 4 years. It wasn't that great. The German military was (like Russia's today) poorly organized, under funded, over extended, and rapidly going obsolete. You've bought the lie that they were actually impressive. They were not, and got suitable destroyed.
Close to 14 million Russian soldiers and civilians perished in World War 2. This number does not count the injured or those that surrendered.
The German extended their supply lines too far on the eastern front, the Russians left little to nothing behind for them to use, and the winter took its toll and that is why they failed. It's difficult to say that they were destroyed by others or whether they destroyed themselves.
To say that the Western front was not a factor is bunk and also that the victory over Japan was anything but easy.
There is a lot of misinformation here from both sides. Go ahead with the downvotes but I am right.
I was speaking solely of the European theater. The US did 99% of the work in the Pacific.
Germany was beaten by December of 1942. The other fronts sped the end along but the outcome was decided by the Russians long before the Americans set foot in Europe.
Ok we will see if Putin started the war because of NATO. Ukraine has offered not to join NATO. So, adult, clearly RU will retreat to its own borders, right? Right? Yes?
FT: Ukraine is ready to declare neutrality, abandon its drive to join Nato and vow to not develop nuclear weapons if Russia withdraws troops and Kyiv receives security guarantees, says president Volodymyr Zelensky
No, Russian army will stay in Ukraine because Ukraine can't be trusted so it won't become nazi state again
Like US stayed in Germany and controls it for the last 77 years s
Probably more Nazis in Putin's camp than in all of Ukraine. And we remember that when serving as a KGB agent in East Germany Putin sponsored and supported Neo-Nazi groups in West Germany. He has no grounds to preach about the political views of citizens of another country.
Close to 14 million Russian soldiers and civilians perished in World War 2. This number does not count the injured or those that surrendered.
The German extended their supply lines too far on the eastern front, the Russians left little to nothing behind for them to use, and the winter took its toll and that is why they failed. It's difficult to say that they were destroyed by others or whether they destroyed themselves.
To say that the Western front was not a factor is bunk and also that the victory over Japan was anything but easy.
There is a lot of misinformation here from both sides. Go ahead with the downvotes but I am right.
I was speaking solely of the European theater. The US did 99% of the work in the Pacific.
Germany was beaten by December of 1942. The other fronts sped the end along but the outcome was decided by the Russians long before the Americans set foot in Europe.
The bombing of Germany by the US and Britain played an enormous role in turning the tide of the war.
And yes, we might agree that it was inhumane in places like Dresden with incendiary bombing.
I was speaking solely of the European theater. The US did 99% of the work in the Pacific.
Germany was beaten by December of 1942. The other fronts sped the end along but the outcome was decided by the Russians long before the Americans set foot in Europe.
The bombing of Germany by the US and Britain played an enormous role in turning the tide of the war.
And yes, we might agree that it was inhumane in places like Dresden with incendiary bombing.
How can Mr. Adult claim that Germany was 'the finest military the world has ever seen' and then claim that they were beaten in less than 3 years from the start of war in Europe. It took the Romans Centuries to fall. 3 years doesn't cut it. 5 days tops.
I was speaking solely of the European theater. The US did 99% of the work in the Pacific.
Germany was beaten by December of 1942. The other fronts sped the end along but the outcome was decided by the Russians long before the Americans set foot in Europe.
The bombing of Germany by the US and Britain played an enormous role in turning the tide of the war.
And yes, we might agree that it was inhumane in places like Dresden with incendiary bombing.
It may have sped the end up but it certainly didn't turn the tide. The US didn't drop a single bomb on Germany until 1943 and the outcome of the war was decided in 1942.
Close to 14 million Russian soldiers and civilians perished in World War 2. This number does not count the injured or those that surrendered.
The German extended their supply lines too far on the eastern front, the Russians left little to nothing behind for them to use, and the winter took its toll and that is why they failed. It's difficult to say that they were destroyed by others or whether they destroyed themselves.
To say that the Western front was not a factor is bunk and also that the victory over Japan was anything but easy.
There is a lot of misinformation here from both sides. Go ahead with the downvotes but I am right.
I was speaking solely of the European theater. The US did 99% of the work in the Pacific.
Germany was beaten by December of 1942. The other fronts sped the end along but the outcome was decided by the Russians long before the Americans set foot in Europe.
meh. the russians begged and begged and begged roosevelt to open a second front in the west. (meaning D-Day) to relieve the pressure from the East. The russians knew that the only real way to destroy Germany was having two fronts - they weren't sure they could do it themselves.
Roosevelt kept dragging out the process from season to season and year to year, seriously worrying the Soviets. So, no, the war was not over by 1942. Only the second front ensured the destruction of the Reich.
The bombing of Germany by the US and Britain played an enormous role in turning the tide of the war.
And yes, we might agree that it was inhumane in places like Dresden with incendiary bombing.
How can Mr. Adult claim that Germany was 'the finest military the world has ever seen' and then claim that they were beaten in less than 3 years from the start of war in Europe. It took the Romans Centuries to fall. 3 years doesn't cut it. 5 days tops.
Mohammed Ali was the greatest boxer of all time. If he fought Frazier and Foreman at the same time he'd lose very quickly.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Pro-tip: if your 'finest military the world had ever seen' gets absolutely stomped in under 4 years. It wasn't that great. The German military was (like Russia's today) poorly organized, under funded, over extended, and rapidly going obsolete. You've bought the lie that they were actually impressive. They were not, and got suitable destroyed.
You are truly a moron...
Obsolete? They had the most advanced weapons on the planet.
They were superbly organized.
They lost because they were fighting the entire developed world...
France had a much larger army with better tanks in 1940 and they got beaten in 2 weeks even with Britain's help.
As always you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
The Germans lost partly because they took on too many wealthy nations.
but they also lost because hitler was a terrible war manager. So many terrible decisions that the strength of the german armed forces couldn't recover from. From not attacking the beaches at Dunkirk (and letting the brits escape) to an unprepared invasion of russia to declaring war on the USA unneccessarily, to pouring billions into superweapons to not letting many foreigners fight with the ubermenschen germans. These were all ideological or just stupid decisons made by hitler that doomed the Reich.
there;s definitely a possible alternative history where germany conquered western europe and ukraine and then stopped. They could have held that for a long time. but hitler was a really bad planner.
I was speaking solely of the European theater. The US did 99% of the work in the Pacific.
Germany was beaten by December of 1942. The other fronts sped the end along but the outcome was decided by the Russians long before the Americans set foot in Europe.
meh. the russians begged and begged and begged roosevelt to open a second front in the west. (meaning D-Day) to relieve the pressure from the East. The russians knew that the only real way to destroy Germany was having two fronts - they weren't sure they could do it themselves.
Roosevelt kept dragging out the process from season to season and year to year, seriously worrying the Soviets. So, no, the war was not over by 1942. Only the second front ensured the destruction of the Reich.
They suffered 10.6 MILLION combat casualties. Of COURSE they wanted help.
They were absolutely sure they would win by December of 1942 when Germany's entire 6th army was destroyed at Stalingrad.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
The Germans reached the limit of their advance in November of 1942. They were on defense from then on out and lost every major battle.
Obsolete? They had the most advanced weapons on the planet.
They were superbly organized.
They lost because they were fighting the entire developed world...
France had a much larger army with better tanks in 1940 and they got beaten in 2 weeks even with Britain's help.
As always you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
The Germans lost partly because they took on too many wealthy nations.
but they also lost because hitler was a terrible war manager. So many terrible decisions that the strength of the german armed forces couldn't recover from. From not attacking the beaches at Dunkirk (and letting the brits escape) to an unprepared invasion of russia to declaring war on the USA unneccessarily, to pouring billions into superweapons to not letting many foreigners fight with the ubermenschen germans. These were all ideological or just stupid decisons made by hitler that doomed the Reich.
there;s definitely a possible alternative history where germany conquered western europe and ukraine and then stopped. They could have held that for a long time. but hitler was a really bad planner.
Hitler was definitely a moron when it came to strategy. If Hitler doesn't meddle in military affairs Germany probably conquers Russia and then the war is basically over.
meh. the russians begged and begged and begged roosevelt to open a second front in the west. (meaning D-Day) to relieve the pressure from the East. The russians knew that the only real way to destroy Germany was having two fronts - they weren't sure they could do it themselves.
Roosevelt kept dragging out the process from season to season and year to year, seriously worrying the Soviets. So, no, the war was not over by 1942. Only the second front ensured the destruction of the Reich.
They suffered 10.6 MILLION combat casualties. Of COURSE they wanted help.
They were absolutely sure they would win by December of 1942 when Germany's entire 6th army was destroyed at Stalingrad.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
The Germans reached the limit of their advance in November of 1942. They were on defense from then on out and lost every major battle.
Your view is that the Western front was not necessary to beat Germany? Ok man. I don’t think that’s reasonable.
And you have a weird habit of considering losing soldiers to be somehow a virtue or showing how well a country fought. That’s not really how war works. Losing soldiers shows how bad you are at war.
look, It’s a spectrum. Germany was certainly in trouble after Stalingrad but their homeland was almost untouched and the war machine was still running. Only the second front and the resultant pincer movement beat Germany. I don’t think the Russians were good enough to drive into Berlin alone. They needed help in the west to split Germany’s forces.
They suffered 10.6 MILLION combat casualties. Of COURSE they wanted help.
They were absolutely sure they would win by December of 1942 when Germany's entire 6th army was destroyed at Stalingrad.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
The Germans reached the limit of their advance in November of 1942. They were on defense from then on out and lost every major battle.
Your view is that the Western front was not necessary to beat Germany? Ok man. I don’t think that’s reasonable.
And you have a weird habit of considering losing soldiers to be somehow a virtue or showing how well a country fought. That’s not really how war works. Losing soldiers shows how bad you are at war.
look, It’s a spectrum. Germany was certainly in trouble after Stalingrad but their homeland was almost untouched and the war machine was still running. Only the second front and the resultant pincer movement beat Germany. I don’t think the Russians were good enough to drive into Berlin alone. They needed help in the west to split Germany’s forces.
80% of German casualties were suffered in the East.
The Soviet Union was 10x stronger in 1945 than it was in 1941. It's perfectly reasonable.
They didn't lose soldiers because of incompetence they lost soldiers because the MAJORITY of the combat happened in the east and they were fighting the best army in the world.
It doesn't matter what you think. The Russians had thrown the Germans out of Russia before d-day every happened. The cream of the German army died in Russia before 1 American boot touched Europe.
Your view is that the Western front was not necessary to beat Germany? Ok man. I don’t think that’s reasonable.
And you have a weird habit of considering losing soldiers to be somehow a virtue or showing how well a country fought. That’s not really how war works. Losing soldiers shows how bad you are at war.
look, It’s a spectrum. Germany was certainly in trouble after Stalingrad but their homeland was almost untouched and the war machine was still running. Only the second front and the resultant pincer movement beat Germany. I don’t think the Russians were good enough to drive into Berlin alone. They needed help in the west to split Germany’s forces.
80% of German casualties were suffered in the East.
The Soviet Union was 10x stronger in 1945 than it was in 1941. It's perfectly reasonable.
They didn't lose soldiers because of incompetence they lost soldiers because the MAJORITY of the combat happened in the east and they were fighting the best army in the world.
It doesn't matter what you think. The Russians had thrown the Germans out of Russia before d-day every happened. The cream of the German army died in Russia before 1 American boot touched Europe.
Yeah the Russians did well in the East….but mostly because hitler sent so many men to the west in advance of DDay. Hitler didn’t care about the east as much as he cared about the west. He was saving western civilization…some poor slavs weren’t all that important to him. Here, from Britannica. Hitler sent massive forces to secure the west, weakening his eastern front. That allowed the Russians to advance. Pincer. The second front was necessary. Otherwise the Germans may not have lost the war.
Brittanica:
From late 1943 on, Hitler’s strategy, which from a political standpoint remains inexplicable to most Western historians, was to strengthen the German forces in western Europe at the expense of those on the Eastern Front. In view of the danger of the great Anglo-U.S. invasion of western Europe that seemed imminent by early 1944, the loss of some part of his eastern conquests evidently seemed to Hitler to be less serious. Hitler continued to insist on the primacy of the war in the west after the start of the Allied invasion of northern France in June 1944, and while his armies made strenuous efforts to contain the Allied bridgehead in Normandy for the next two months, Hitler accepted the annihilation of the German Army Group Centre on the Eastern Front by the Soviet summer offensive (from June 1944), which brought the Red Army in a few weeks’ time to the Vistula River and the borders of East Prussia.
The Germans lost partly because they took on too many wealthy nations.
but they also lost because hitler was a terrible war manager. So many terrible decisions that the strength of the german armed forces couldn't recover from. From not attacking the beaches at Dunkirk (and letting the brits escape) to an unprepared invasion of russia to declaring war on the USA unneccessarily, to pouring billions into superweapons to not letting many foreigners fight with the ubermenschen germans. These were all ideological or just stupid decisons made by hitler that doomed the Reich.
there;s definitely a possible alternative history where germany conquered western europe and ukraine and then stopped. They could have held that for a long time. but hitler was a really bad planner.
Hitler was definitely a moron when it came to strategy. If Hitler doesn't meddle in military affairs Germany probably conquers Russia and then the war is basically over.
You simply cannot have 'the finest military the world has ever seen' if your commander in chief is a 'moron when it came to strategy.' Those are irreconcilable viewpoints, but not to you. Shocking.
Ok we will see if Putin started the war because of NATO. Ukraine has offered not to join NATO. So, adult, clearly RU will retreat to its own borders, right? Right? Yes?
FT: Ukraine is ready to declare neutrality, abandon its drive to join Nato and vow to not develop nuclear weapons if Russia withdraws troops and Kyiv receives security guarantees, says president Volodymyr Zelensky
No, Russian army will stay in Ukraine because Ukraine can't be trusted so it won't become nazi state again
Like US stayed in Germany and controls it for the last 77 years s
80% of German casualties were suffered in the East.
The Soviet Union was 10x stronger in 1945 than it was in 1941. It's perfectly reasonable.
They didn't lose soldiers because of incompetence they lost soldiers because the MAJORITY of the combat happened in the east and they were fighting the best army in the world.
It doesn't matter what you think. The Russians had thrown the Germans out of Russia before d-day every happened. The cream of the German army died in Russia before 1 American boot touched Europe.
Yeah the Russians did well in the East….but mostly because hitler sent so many men to the west in advance of DDay. Hitler didn’t care about the east as much as he cared about the west. He was saving western civilization…some poor slavs weren’t all that important to him. Here, from Britannica. Hitler sent massive forces to secure the west, weakening his eastern front. That allowed the Russians to advance. Pincer. The second front was necessary. Otherwise the Germans may not have lost the war.
Brittanica:
From late 1943 on, Hitler’s strategy, which from a political standpoint remains inexplicable to most Western historians, was to strengthen the German forces in western Europe at the expense of those on the Eastern Front. In view of the danger of the great Anglo-U.S. invasion of western Europe that seemed imminent by early 1944, the loss of some part of his eastern conquests evidently seemed to Hitler to be less serious. Hitler continued to insist on the primacy of the war in the west after the start of the Allied invasion of northern France in June 1944, and while his armies made strenuous efforts to contain the Allied bridgehead in Normandy for the next two months, Hitler accepted the annihilation of the German Army Group Centre on the Eastern Front by the Soviet summer offensive (from June 1944), which brought the Red Army in a few weeks’ time to the Vistula River and the borders of East Prussia.
Wow...
So the 28 MILLION troops engaged in the east were just a diversion for Hitler's true aim of defending the West with 8 million troops... lol...
Hitler was crazy. He thought the war was winnable right up until he blew his brains out.
The Germans were so "scared" of the Americans and British there was a mad dash to surrender to them and not the Russians.
Your view is that the Western front was not necessary to beat Germany? Ok man. I don’t think that’s reasonable.
And you have a weird habit of considering losing soldiers to be somehow a virtue or showing how well a country fought. That’s not really how war works. Losing soldiers shows how bad you are at war.
look, It’s a spectrum. Germany was certainly in trouble after Stalingrad but their homeland was almost untouched and the war machine was still running. Only the second front and the resultant pincer movement beat Germany. I don’t think the Russians were good enough to drive into Berlin alone. They needed help in the west to split Germany’s forces.
80% of German casualties were suffered in the East.
The Soviet Union was 10x stronger in 1945 than it was in 1941. It's perfectly reasonable.
They didn't lose soldiers because of incompetence they lost soldiers because the MAJORITY of the combat happened in the east and they were fighting the best army in the world.
It doesn't matter what you think. The Russians had thrown the Germans out of Russia before d-day every happened. The cream of the German army died in Russia before 1 American boot touched Europe.
The British would have been defeated if Germany hadn't invaded Russia in the first place.
I'm detecting hints of deflection in these comments about Nazis by Russophobes like agip. Are they starting to realize the Ukrainian neo-Nazis are real, and maneuvering to save face? Like they totally were against sending thousands of weapons to a neo-Nazi militia
Hitler was definitely a moron when it came to strategy. If Hitler doesn't meddle in military affairs Germany probably conquers Russia and then the war is basically over.
You simply cannot have 'the finest military the world has ever seen' if your commander in chief is a 'moron when it came to strategy.' Those are irreconcilable viewpoints, but not to you. Shocking.
5 days, tops.
It is truly amazing that you are completely incapable of of understanding your limitations... lol.
80% of German casualties were suffered in the East.
The Soviet Union was 10x stronger in 1945 than it was in 1941. It's perfectly reasonable.
They didn't lose soldiers because of incompetence they lost soldiers because the MAJORITY of the combat happened in the east and they were fighting the best army in the world.
It doesn't matter what you think. The Russians had thrown the Germans out of Russia before d-day every happened. The cream of the German army died in Russia before 1 American boot touched Europe.
The British would have been defeated if Germany hadn't invaded Russia in the first place.
I'm detecting hints of deflection in these comments about Nazis by Russophobes like agip. Are they starting to realize the Ukrainian neo-Nazis are real, and maneuvering to save face? Like they totally were against sending thousands of weapons to a neo-Nazi militia
Germany lost the Battle of Britain and changed strategies to focus on Russia as Britain was no threat on land and Germany feared Russia was going to invade them eventually.
Yeah the Russians did well in the East….but mostly because hitler sent so many men to the west in advance of DDay. Hitler didn’t care about the east as much as he cared about the west. He was saving western civilization…some poor slavs weren’t all that important to him. Here, from Britannica. Hitler sent massive forces to secure the west, weakening his eastern front. That allowed the Russians to advance. Pincer. The second front was necessary. Otherwise the Germans may not have lost the war.
Brittanica:
From late 1943 on, Hitler’s strategy, which from a political standpoint remains inexplicable to most Western historians, was to strengthen the German forces in western Europe at the expense of those on the Eastern Front. In view of the danger of the great Anglo-U.S. invasion of western Europe that seemed imminent by early 1944, the loss of some part of his eastern conquests evidently seemed to Hitler to be less serious. Hitler continued to insist on the primacy of the war in the west after the start of the Allied invasion of northern France in June 1944, and while his armies made strenuous efforts to contain the Allied bridgehead in Normandy for the next two months, Hitler accepted the annihilation of the German Army Group Centre on the Eastern Front by the Soviet summer offensive (from June 1944), which brought the Red Army in a few weeks’ time to the Vistula River and the borders of East Prussia.
Wow...
So the 28 MILLION troops engaged in the east were just a diversion for Hitler's true aim of defending the West with 8 million troops... lol...
Hitler was crazy. He thought the war was winnable right up until he blew his brains out.
The Germans were so "scared" of the Americans and British there was a mad dash to surrender to them and not the Russians.
Your claim that the western front was irrelevant is simply not defensible. You should retract it and move on to the next indefensible and wrong claim you will make.
