50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Arthritic Old Stiff wrote:

... the genetically anti-aging very fast middle-agers get all the accolades while some of us slow stiffs get the laughter of the masters running community (I experience this a lot in the master's club I belong to).

Really? That doesn't sound like any running community with which I have ever been involved. Always supportive and friendly, no matter the competitive level.

Meanwhile, I failed again at my attempt to rise and shine before 6 a.m. this morning. But I did take advantage of the cooler weather to run an encouraging workout before work. Six continuous miles, alternating 800m at 5K pace and 800m at marathon pace. Average was 6:34 per mile, which is my approximate LT pace.

With warmup (2 miles @ 11:00/mi) and cooldown, a solid 10 miles for the day.

5K a week from tomorrow.

I find it amazing, cool, and inspiring that Igy can return to running in such an impressive and fast way. I have seen too many that are set back by chemo in a difficult, weakened way, and it made me wonder if chemo is ever worth it. Now I can see that some folks do recover from its effects.

And next time you see me, know that this 67 year old running 10 minute miles still feels like he did when running 7 minute miles from 30 years earlier! :) Sometimes I almost feel like I'm flyin' :)

I second Allen1959 and Mike Lundgren's comments! I, too, have always found the running community very supportive of everyone who is out there trying, regardless of age or ability.

And Mike, I had to laugh because that's almost precisely the kind of thing I keep saying recently. "Running feels just like it used to, but now the clock says 9:15 per mile when my body says it should be 6:45!"

I am trying not to be obnoxious and appear to be making a statement but rather to state facts. We all have challenges which Coyote expressed his amazing story. A good friend has a pacemaker, some of you may have finished behind him in races. His toughness is the reason he has won several masters championships and of course a good dose of talent. Really the separating quality is this person’s persistence and grit. As for myself I believe being as healthy as I can be gives me the best chance of living an average life expectancy with the fewest complications. So instead of last year health being priority number three let’s say it is now at the top. I can’t help others if I am not around. By the way I think the process of running somehow rapidly purges the chemo drugs from the body, perhaps better and faster than most exercises.

Igy

amkelley wrote:

"Running feels just like it used to, but now the clock says 9:15 per mile when my body says it should be 6:45!"

Yeah, the effort is there, the challenge is there, the satisfaction is there, but, for me, the "new" paces feel slow. The ground slowly passes underfoot. The mile markers take a lot longer to come along.

The only time I feel like I am flying is on two wheels. With a tailwind. Downhill.

Running is still fun, and I have adjusted to the slower paces. But an 8-minute mile today feels like an 8-minute mile of old. Just takes a lot more effort!

Speaking of flying on two wheels, have you ever been on one of those stretches of road that appear completely level -- or even uphill, but are actually descents? I found myself cruising at 26 mph on a windless day. Looked perfectly flat. Wish it were!

Allen1959 wrote:

CM -- Thanks for sharing the race details! In the GVH photos, that last climb looks nasty.

Agree...that was a great writeup. Hey, if you can't talk about here, where can you? I also perused Mike Scotts pics of the race. 100's of them. It looks like they are only accessible from Facebook. I had to match up the bib numbers from the USATF page to the pics to see who some of the guys were. There is real nice pic of you (CM) with Joe over your shoulder. Looks to be close to the finish. Both feet are off the ground...looks like you are in full kick mode!

Allen1959 wrote:

racerdb -- Good to see your training coming along. Impressive patience. And all those 7-something paces in the summer heat have to be encouraging.

Thanks!...

Cautiously optimistic is how I'm taking it, day-by-day. I am somewhat surprised on how comfortable low 7:00 pace is feeling.

As for our paces slowing down with aging... yep 7:00 pace feels like 6:00 pace from not too many years ago. I used to never, ever run 8:00 pace and now its almost a daily thing. Don't laugh at me I and won't laugh at you!

Dave

Allen1959 wrote:

Arthritic Old Stiff wrote:

... the genetically anti-aging very fast middle-agers get all the accolades while some of us slow stiffs get the laughter of the masters running community (I experience this a lot in the master's club I belong to).

Really? That doesn't sound like any running community with which I have ever been involved. Always supportive and friendly, no matter the competitive level.

Meanwhile, I failed again at my attempt to rise and shine before 6 a.m. this morning. But I did take advantage of the cooler weather to run an encouraging workout before work. Six continuous miles, alternating 800m at 5K pace and 800m at marathon pace. Average was 6:34 per mile, which is my approximate LT pace.

With warmup (2 miles @ 11:00/mi) and cooldown, a solid 10 miles for the day.

5K a week from tomorrow.

Allen perhaps you have missed out on the genetic gift of being able to get out of bed in the early morning.

I haven't posted my training for sometime. My 24 days in France were active but hardly involved "training". I did a bit of walk and jog and plenty of hiking.

I did manage to run up the 800 plus steps of the tunnel from the walled village of Villefranche to the hilltop Fort Liberia. If you are looking for an off the tourist path place to go in France then Villefranche de Conflent is the place. Loved it.

Had a few wonderful swims in the Med in the artists paradise of Collioure. Some good tough hike and jogs there too.

I had a spot 200 metres from the finish of Stage 15 of the TDF in the incredible town of Carcassonne. That was pretty special. Happily mingling with the riders post race as I walked back to the B & B.

Lots of Chateaux in the Loire/Indre, Loches was top pick, another place that is a bit off the tourist path.

Some good hikes in the Vosges Mountains while staying in Barr, one was 23 kms with 500 metres of elevation gain and loss.

Also hours of traipsing through the never ending halls and galleries of the Louvre, you could run a marathon in that place.

So back home from temps in the 30s C. to temps topping in the low teens C. A good dose of jet lag. Back to the grind of shift work.

Last week was just about getting the body back into something like training mode. Weight vest hikes, a couple of short trots at low speed and some short kayak and mountain bike rides. Plenty of supplementary exercises in small doses.

So far this week things are looking quite good. I have managed a decent mountain bike ride, and a solid kayak session. I mixed some running and brisk hiking at the hilly Pyalong golf course. 10 plus kms of which 45 mins was running. Yesterday I jogged around the back of Mt Ida and surprised myself by being able to run all the way up the "Hardway" track and it's 40ish % gradient, I jogged down the dirt road the other side and ran the 2.5 km back up to the top. I held good form all the way although it was pretty slow. All up an hour of running. I walked the 3 kms back down to the start.

Great to read all of these inspiring race efforts from you guys and girls. Good to see Igy doing well.

For inspiration I don't have to look far from home. My good mate Johnny J keeps posting solid race times pretty much every Saturday arvo. Johnny is 80+ and clocks around 7 min. mile pace for the club short races (1 to 2 km). Yep good genes but also good management and a great attitude.

So, middle-agers who have the desire & motivation to train consistently but can't because of chronic injuries (i.e., bad running genetics) aren't supposed to post on this thread? Only those that are jovial and have a positive outlook because they can train & race consistently should post regularly?

You may have been a "wreck at 45" like you said, but look at where you're at now? A 17:30 5k in the 60 age-group a couple of weeks ago! To put this in perspective my most recent 5k (about a year ago at a local-mocal cheap ribbon charity race on a relatively flat course) was a pedestrian 25:40 (age 58). If you ran this same race you could cooled down, collecteced your ribbon, shook hands with race director and start leaving the parking lot before I even finished! ?

When I was 45, I was running much faster with a hell of lot less injuries. About in my early 50s, things went south pretty quickly with significant degenerative changes of the musculoskeletal system, just as the studies confirm with age-related degenerative decline with athletes. So, it does amaze me when middle-age athletes get faster and less injured as they get older, particularly with a high-impact activity like running. This one area of research I've been interested in to see what role genetics play in this. ?

Stiff,

Certainly mean no criticism to you. Just posting my experience. Of course wish you the best.

Igy

not sure there have ever been explicitly stated parameters (except for the 50+ part, but even that's been ignored as a few 40+ posters have come along for the ride, including me when i was 48, and more recently multi-national-champ-thread-lurker david angell) for who can post or who can't, nor do i think anyone has discouraged anyone from posting (outside of trolls), but i can't be sure, nor do i feel like checking all 10650 posts.

i'd like to think we can all understand each other's aches and pains--no one escapes those--and falls from glory are all relative. my decline this past year has been fairly precipitous, even during periods of good health, but i can at least speak for myself when i say i'm less likely to wallow because of the motivation--and more importantly, perspective--i've gotten from many on this board. and times are immaterial to the fact that we all gain immense satisfaction from goals set, worked towards, and achieved.

the comeback trail may be the only trail now, but i'm ok with it since it beats the alternative...

carpe crepusculem,

cush

socal cush wrote:

the comeback trail may be the only trail now, but i'm ok with it since it beats the alternative...

Agreed. Getting old sucks, but consider the alternative!

I just look at some or maybe many 63 year olds. Out of shape and overweight. I am so glad that I jump out of bed each morning looking forward to my run. I am also glad that I can play all day with my grandsons. Loving life and enjoying fitness!

Question for those with serious injury/mobility issues: was there a point in your younger days when you DIDN'T have such problems? In my case, I actually have much fewer aches and pains and injuries than in my 20s and 30s, which I attribute to dong a better job of listening to my body. I am slower for sure, but it's no because of injuries.

I am have been less injured over the last several years compared to a lot of injuries in my younger days. The main reason is for the fact I am running more efficient. I used to be a big heel striker which can lead to all sorts of injuries. I have evolved to a more mid foot striker.

Great post. I do believe genetics is the primary limiting factor in determine the level of exercise one can reasonably tolerate. Of course there is a place for motivation, diet, stretching, etc., but these are secondary. As you pointed out, there are plenty of studies chronicling age-related degeneration. We may be able to slow its progress, but it cannot be stopped. Our DNA has a lot to say about how this all takes place.

Don’t let your limitations keep you from posting here. Yes, there are a few snobs who just want the focus to be exclusively on them and want nothing to do us plodders, but there are also many supportive and encouraging folks here. Stay the course.

60+ wrote:

Question for those with serious injury/mobility issues: was there a point in your younger days when you DIDN'T have such problems? In my case, I actually have much fewer aches and pains and injuries than in my 20s and 30s, which I attribute to dong a better job of listening to my body. I am slower for sure, but it's no because of injuries.

It depends a bit on how one defines "serious". If it means not being able to run for months then no, other than the first 5 years I ever ran ('75 to 79). I've had some type of soft tissue or recoverable tendon injury almost every year since 1979. But if it means a permanent issue such that one is never free from it, then yes, I'm very lucky to have never delt with that. Even though PF and other various tendon issues are horrid, they are not in the same category as something that permanently stops you from running.

Way to go Coyote Montane in last nights mile. Yet another national title to your credit. How did the race go?

Just went by feel this week after last week's 5k in Atlanta. It has been nice to just head out the door and run what ever pace I feel like. Because of the smoke where I live I spent several days at our cabin in the mountains running in the forrests. For those struggling, keep the faith. For those hitting on all cylinders, enjoy the ride.

63 wrote:

Way to go Coyote Montane in last nights mile. Yet another national title to your credit. How did the race go?

Just went by feel this week after last week's 5k in Atlanta. It has been nice to just head out the door and run what ever pace I feel like. Because of the smoke where I live I spent several days at our cabin in the mountains running in the forrests. For those struggling, keep the faith. For those hitting on all cylinders, enjoy the ride.

Hey thanks 63.

Mile went well. Ken took it out fast but caught him just before half way. Times were 3-4 sec faster than listed. Timer hit start early or something. But that didn't affect the outcome.

Yeah, the West is burning up! Not as bad as pnw and California.

*Week 376*

Salutations, 50+ers! More props to CM on the Michigan Mile....you're on a roll! Glad to see it. Kudos to all others that have been toeing the line.

To Broken Down Old Stiff, I understand your frustration. The 50's have not been kind to me: going from knocking on the door of breaking 17:00 to now, where I'm reticent to even race---I'd be lucky to break 23:00. Have I done everything I could to improve my running? The answer to that is a definitive "No." I've not been diligent about controlling my weight, I've chosen not to have surgery for some issues, and I've mostly tried to self-heal the other issues....the list goes on. Will I be able to turn it around again? Maybe, we'll see if the fire burns hot again. It's an uphill battle to be sure, with arthritis advancing, and muscle-mass clearly on the decline. But that's just life, gotta roll with it, do what you can as your experiment of one. We're all data points on the vast plain of aging and running as humans on this Earth. I echo the remarks of others that I don't witness any snarkiness towards the back-of-the-packers within our running community. I've witnessed many race winners move to the sidelines and cheer on the others that finish well behind them, and I'm personally thrilled for anyone that has chosen to lace up and get out there to do something to better themselves (and usually to give back to some charity, as well.) Why would I impose my values on what they do? Makes no sense.

OK, so here's my week: I almost hit 20 miles of running and run/walking; log read as such:

Sun: 4.2 (run/walk 9:48/mi avg) 2:00 walk, 3:00 run

Mon: off

Tue: 5.2 (run/walk 9:21/mi avg) 1/2-lap walk, 1.5-lap run

Wed: Walk

Thu: 6.1 (8:27/mi) all running, took a break halfway.

Fri: Walk/yard work

Sat: 4.0 (run/walk 9:55/mi avg) 2:00 walk, 3:00 run

So progress. For the run/walk exercises, the walking parts are typically in the 15:00/mi range, and the running usually starts out in the 8:00/mi range and works down to 6:20-6:30/mi range. Knee is feeling OK, though it remains a tad swollen, especially on the outside. I think I could probably run more, but I'm staying away from the edge at present and will continue this routine for a while until I feel I have a better handle on what is happening with the knee....I remain optimistic.

That's about all I got; hope you're having a good week. Always encouraged to read your reports (especially the race details.) So, wherever you are at, be it racing, running, or rehabbing, keep your story going.

All the Best!