This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
The CDC website is filled with evidence based information about the vaccines. It's not their fault you active chose to ignore the tons of evidence supporting the vaccine.
14 months later, the data continues to be withheld.
The CDC website is filled with evidence based information about the vaccines. It's not their fault you active chose to ignore the tons of evidence supporting the vaccine.
14 months later, the data continues to be withheld.
This Friday I'm going on a trip to a major science institution. Meanwhile, you hooligans are on here debating something so trivial like whether these vaccines worked (yes, they saved many millions of lives). Get on my level
This Friday I'm going on a trip to a major science institution. Meanwhile, you hooligans are on here debating something so trivial like whether these vaccines worked (yes, they saved many millions of lives). Get on my level
I am sure a counterpoint to be made would be that we didn't have time to educate effectively and get everyone on board, especially with the other side's misinformation campaign. Im retrospect, this view was horribly deficient and will continue to prove to be costly, and imo it should have been fairly easy to assess at the time (at least a lot better than it was).
I could go on. In short, it is not really the expertise of the credentialed class that is under suspicion (though it is). It is more their overall integrity. In fairness, the integrity of all of us together is lacking, but it is the leaders at the time that will bear the weight of this failure when historians look back.
The CDC website is filled with evidence based information about the vaccines. It's not their fault you active chose to ignore the tons of evidence supporting the vaccine.
The evidence was easy to assess at the time. It's just people like you were quick to ignore evidence and challenge the conclusions of experts, thus muddying the water for other ignorant people and helping misinformation campaigns.
95% of the demands for "additional evidence" were just diversionary tactics from antivaxxers that didn't want to admit they were wrong. Many people fell for it. Many people died.
Are you of the belief that ALL the bright and capable experts were in lockstep from the beginning on all the facets regarding covid, the vaccines, and how we should handle it? I don't think that it's likely that all the intelligent people (if allowed to think and speak freely) when presented with such a substantial problem would say the exact same things and have the same recommendations. I don't recall the rigorous debate at the beginning. Because of this, none of it going forward passed the sniff-test (for me). So, yes, it was their failure for not doing a better job at getting everyone on board with their recommendations.
You tend to argue in bad faith by assuming a posture of perfection. No human (or institution comprised of humans) is 100% immune from making regrettable errors (sometimes with the best intentions and sometimes not).
Very unpopular piece: when business should open and masks and timing of school openings wasn’t lockstep and was kicked down to local governments and political pressures
This Friday I'm going on a trip to a major science institution. Meanwhile, you hooligans are on here debating something so trivial like whether these vaccines worked (yes, they saved many millions of lives). Get on my level
Why would we want to downgrade to your level? You're in no position to comment on the "vaccines," when you failed Hoax 101 with the cloth masks and your "major science institution," the U of Penn, did as well. Particle filtration of a cloth mask vs size of a virus. "Educated" morons.
The CDC website is filled with evidence based information about the vaccines. It's not their fault you active chose to ignore the tons of evidence supporting the vaccine.
The evidence was easy to assess at the time. It's just people like you were quick to ignore evidence and challenge the conclusions of experts, thus muddying the water for other ignorant people and helping misinformation campaigns.
95% of the demands for "additional evidence" were just diversionary tactics from antivaxxers that didn't want to admit they were wrong. Many people fell for it. Many people died.
Are you of the belief that ALL the bright and capable experts were in lockstep from the beginning on all the facets regarding covid, the vaccines, and how we should handle it? I don't think that it's likely that all the intelligent people (if allowed to think and speak freely) when presented with such a substantial problem would say the exact same things and have the same recommendations. I don't recall the rigorous debate at the beginning. Because of this, none of it going forward passed the sniff-test (for me). So, yes, it was their failure for not doing a better job at getting everyone on board with their recommendations.
You tend to argue in bad faith by assuming a posture of perfection. No human (or institution comprised of humans) is 100% immune from making regrettable errors (sometimes with the best intentions and sometimes not).
If all the experts were in agreement, why were so many censored, smeared, fired, silenced?
Are you of the belief that ALL the bright and capable experts were in lockstep from the beginning on all the facets regarding covid, the vaccines, and how we should handle it? I don't think that it's likely that all the intelligent people (if allowed to think and speak freely) when presented with such a substantial problem would say the exact same things and have the same recommendations. I don't recall the rigorous debate at the beginning. Because of this, none of it going forward passed the sniff-test (for me). So, yes, it was their failure for not doing a better job at getting everyone on board with their recommendations.
You tend to argue in bad faith by assuming a posture of perfection. No human (or institution comprised of humans) is 100% immune from making regrettable errors (sometimes with the best intentions and sometimes not).
If all the experts were in agreement, why were so many censored, smeared, fired, silenced?
Very few people were in agreement actually! Good point! It wasnt an easy situation. Glad we got to hear everyone's take so we could quickly assess who was thoughtful and who was posturing for clout and $$$
If all the experts were in agreement, why were so many censored, smeared, fired, silenced?
Very few people were in agreement actually! Good point! It wasnt an easy situation. Glad we got to hear everyone's take so we could quickly assess who was thoughtful and who was posturing for clout and $
If all the experts were in agreement, why were so many censored, smeared, fired, silenced?
Very few people were in agreement actually! Good point! It wasnt an easy situation. Glad we got to hear everyone's take so we could quickly assess who was thoughtful and who was posturing for clout and $
No one was silenced. The trusted information sources just decided to listen only to medical doctors and infectious disease doctors and report to the public what they advise (not much disagreement there) in an effort to keep people healthy and save as many lives as possible, which is what one would expect them to do during a public health emergency.
Now that things are better and we live in a free country it’s more OK imo for social media entertainers&conspiracy theory quacks to get a little more of a voice for oddball uneducated audience on YouTube and twitter (under first amendment). No worries-These entertainers can expand social media followings, especially to those suffering paranoia and delusions, to those without college degree, and to those haven’t taken courses in statistics and public health. Some of these delusional entertainers and followers of these entertainers may remain confused wondering why still nobody in public health pays any attention to what they’re holding up and crazy claims they’re making. But the entertainers can just keep the grift going by telling followers something like “big Pharma and FDA and world health is covering something up and/or lying”, but at this point in pandemic it’s not really something that matters much anymore.
Very few people were in agreement actually! Good point! It wasnt an easy situation. Glad we got to hear everyone's take so we could quickly assess who was thoughtful and who was posturing for clout and $
No one was silenced. The trusted information sources just decided to listen only to medical doctors and infectious disease doctors and report to the public what they advise (not much disagreement there) in an effort to keep people healthy and save as many lives as possible, which is what one would expect them to do during a public health emergency.
Now that things are better and we live in a free country it’s more OK imo for social media entertainers&conspiracy theory quacks to get a little more of a voice for oddball uneducated audience on YouTube and twitter (under first amendment). No worries-These entertainers can expand social media followings, especially to those suffering paranoia and delusions, to those without college degree, and to those haven’t taken courses in statistics and public health. Some of these delusional entertainers and followers of these entertainers may remain confused wondering why still nobody in public health pays any attention to what they’re holding up and crazy claims they’re making. But the entertainers can just keep the grift going by telling followers something like “big Pharma and FDA and world health is covering something up and/or lying”, but at this point in pandemic it’s not really something that matters much anymore.
It’s not just who is speaking, but the data behind them. Certainly there have been some doctors who have had contrarian views about the virus and vaccines. To the extent that their arguments were based on evidence(collected in a verifiable manner) as opposed to eminence, their arguments were given consideration.
