I'm breaking my rule: Second Kip Litton Thread - Can someone please tell me what's up?

Color mud fest wrote:

Free Press Yorker wrote:

No one is that dumb as he's quite known in Michigan racing for what he's done.

His wife is an attorney. Think about it. He sits down in a Wendy's with a reporter from The New Yorker. The story was written and sent out and put on line. Again, think about it. If he were even slightly innocent, she or a lawyer friend would go after that paper big time. Yes, I know what libel is and understand the concept well. I realize that Mr. Singer was mainly regurgitating facts and asking questions.

An innocent person would have sued in a heart beat over comments from this website, SOKLR, The New Yorker, and numerous other sources. But he didn't. Hmmmmm....

Is he known at the Color Runs and mud runs in Michigan?

Truthfully, I don't know. My daughter did one with her friends and I did not see the guy there as I'm always looking. Sorry, but I don't think you'll see him in a long, long time as most know his face, especially those that he allegedly finished in front of....Solstice 10K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, even though the RD disqualified him if I recall correctly.

Do his employees at the dentist office know about the cheating?

Answering for myself, I have no clue what they believe or not. But understand this, a lot of people know nothing about running and it would be easy to explain away anything to someone who was clueless as to "WHO changes their outfit and shoes during a marathon?"...etc... It would not be that difficult to give a seemingly plausible answer to an agreeable novice.

what is their IQ wrote:

Do his employees at the dentist office know about the cheating?

Yes, well said. The only thing I slightly respectfully disagree with is in the how part of your post. I think most anyone can cut a course fairly simply with a little planning. In many cases you need only to cut across some cross streets. A late start would give you more time and more disguise, especially if u start out dressed as a walker. I doubt an accomplice.

If I were him I would come out and say something to the tune of it was a mistake in judgment in order to raise funds for charity. He has taken the approach of silence as many marathon photos and memories hopefully, for him, fade into the archives of time. For a variety of reasons it hasn't.

Thank you and I agree with what you said about an accomplice. I was merely stating the possibilities that could not be 100% ruled out. Without an accomplice, he's either in a vehicle or on a bike, but he's definitely not running:)

I don't think what he did was hard at all. Walking on the side of the Boston Marathon to cross mats with a hat on, sweat pants, and looking down. No one is paying attention to him as the runners passing him would only see his back and 99% of them wouldn't even be looking at him. Of course the spectators are looking at the runners, not him.

Then get off the course and use only one of a few ways to get to the next mat without actually running. That's how badly he wanted to say that he broke 3 hours as he apparently couldn't do it by training.

Hubbard, dukerdog (Mark), etc..truly over thought the how as his uniform change should have set off red flags.

He's not the only one to do what he did, he just did it over and over from 10k's, to relays, to 10 milers, and in both half and full marathons.

In addition he was winning his age-group and breaking 3 hours versus someone who was breaking 4 hours and 58th in their age-group. Both are cheating, but like most things in life, there are different levels.

I bet he admits it one day and says it was a joke that had gone too far, or something along those lines.

Sorry, anyone who's ran the Crim knows that you aren't going to get "off course" anywhere in that race as there's always someone in front of you, next to you or behind you.

A relay in Detroit????

I ran the marathon as an 18 year-old and had never gone down to some of the areas that we ran in prior to the race (bad area around 20 miles that year). But somehow I ran 26.2 miles without getting lost as a punk 18 year-old with no sense of direction back then (yes I'm serious). How did he take a wrong turn during a relay as a 40 some year-old adult??? He didn't and he knows it and I can only assume his team members do as well (wish I knew their names as I'd love to have a chat with them).

Good day:)

I pretty much agree with everything you said, aka your logic. Now try getting him to admit it. Mark Singer tried and got hosed with nonsense.

The funniest thing I find about getting lost on the Crim route is that there is a blue line painted on the streets of Flint the entire 10 miles that you follow. If you were dead first behind the bikes, 15th, with the other 10,000 runners or running it by yourself in November, you always have the blue line to follow.

Anyone from the area that has run the route more than a couple times can probably run the route without the blue line and without the people. People line the streets most of the entire route and it is absolutely packed with people at the Bradley hills which basically goes from mile 5-6+. You cannot get lost at the Crim.

I just find this story fascinating because I have run the Bayshore (3 times) and Crim (5 times) and I generally start in the middle of the pack. For the first couple miles of both routes you cannot move very well. You have to jump on the grass and sidewalks just to try to make your way around people. I like starting this way because it helps me from going to fast out of the gate. 8 minute miles are my goal and it takes at least 3-4 miles to get to that pace in the Bayshore. Crim is more difficult to get around runners.

We all know that Kip is doing something to cut time, but I feel like the constant fascination is like Baseball players who won't admit to steroids that makes this story so intriguing.

Achtung Baby wrote:

Answering for myself, I have no clue what they believe or not.

But understand this, a lot of people know nothing about running and it would be easy to explain away anything to someone who was clueless as to "WHO changes their outfit and shoes during a marathon?"...etc...

It would not be that difficult to give a seemingly plausible answer to an agreeable novice.

I totally agree, and this is why the Kip Litton saga isn't well understood by the masses. A lot of people will read the New Yorker article, but won't understand why his race times are just impossible given the circumstances as they aren't experienced runners.

Remember? wrote:

If I were him I would come out and say something to the tune of it was a mistake in judgment in order to raise funds for charity. He has taken the approach of silence as many marathon photos and memories hopefully, for him, fade into the archives of time. For a variety of reasons it hasn't.

We WILL NOT let this topic die until he gives some kind of explanation or confesses.

Agree. Completely fascinating in so many respects that have been detailed many times over. Since the "saga" began numerous cheaters were since exposed here. Fascinating also that those cheaters almost all unabashedly denied their obvious cheating, even London's "faux farah" whose second half split was a hr faster than his first. But most are a one and done phenomenon. One thing about the kl story is that it was so spread out if u will across the country in terms of the different race locales. This combined w the fact that his new times were encroaching into the letsrun crowd range ticked off a lot of people. I know my best friend was displaced from an award at the Naples half marathon by him. My friends last good race before he got badly injured. He appeared no where in relevant race photos. I myself turned out to be in a few races coincidentally that he was accused of cheating in and I can proudly say I was fast enough to be unaffected place wise :)

I agree this topic will likely smolder....

I bet 90%+ of people have no idea where their doctor, dentist, lawyer etc went to professional school. There are plenty of doctors, dentists etc out there who are in AA and the public at large has no idea. I'm sure he is a perfectly fine dentist and his professional life should not be questioned with conjectures.

Agreed, and it's the same for the Solstice 10k. No reason to get lost on that course, total BS.

If I sat down with him, one question would be to please explain how this picture shows you in the "back of the pack" (see the link below), wearing a long sleeve t-shirt on a hot Michigan summer day (in late June) and you somehow ended up 9th overall before you were disqualified, somehow taking your shirt off along the way without being noticed by even one person?

He can't say that he got lost on that course as it's impossible.

Why were you covering up your number Kip? We know, but let's hear you say it as who does that on a hot day?

How did you pass so many runners and not one runner in the top 100 ever saw you pass them at ANY point in the race, but somehow you finished ahead of them? It's not possible. When did you pass Eric Green, at what point?

When trapped he will come up with something like I had to go to the bathroom and it was near the video spot, hence him not being on video. You can't see me because I have no number on? Wow, so you have to have a number on and exposed or the camera senses it and won't record you. I can come up with an excuse that he can possible come up with, but it's still BS and doesn't make any sense.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Why is the spectator in the photo (yellow shirt) staring at you from so far away? To me it's beyond staring. He looks totally fixated on you as if he's seen wrong doing.

Is it because he saw you jump in? Were you "jogging along side the road" trying to be inconspicuous with no number on, and then slide in at race pace for the last mile? I suspect that's exactly what happened, but he didn't come forward because he didn't know what he had truly just witnessed.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Cheating to run 6:00 pace for a 10k race and attempting to win your age-group in the process by robbing the effort of those who earned it. Thank God that RD did the right thing and disqualified him.

I know you read this stuff Kip. I'm from Michigan and I know what you did. I've had both Psych and Soc and get the why (egos are powerful things). Anytime you want to sit and have a chat with me, I'm game. The odds are you'll end up bolting as you can't explain away some very easy questions with "logical" answers (BS doesn't count). When you found out people were going to be watching (who you invited to watch) you suddenly got in a car accident and NEVER recovered from it. Hmmm....

You claimed that you didn't want to engage with anonymous people on an internet forum, correct? Okay then, since you're reading this, contact the brothers who'll contact me and we'll sit down and discuss it in the same booth that you did with Mr. Singer. Fair enough?

At the very least the road races in Michigan now appear to be less tainted.

Thanks to SOKLR for the Solstice evidence.

http://kiplitton.blogspot.com/2011_10_01_archive.html

It may not be a long sleeve t-shirt, but it's hard to rule out based on the photo.

And he finished behind Eric Green, not in front of. Irrelevant, Eric and others around him would have surely seen him at several points in the race for a more than a few miles. The running community complained to the RD for a reason and that was because they were never passed by him and many runners knew it.

I love this. This is from the SOKLR blog link cited above. Pay attention to the section I bolded below. Why can't more RDs realize they have a responsibility to conduct and (provide the public with) an "organized, fair and professional race event with accurate finisher results"??????

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: Alan Whitehead

Date: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:51 PM

Subject: 2009 Solstice Run 10K - Finish Results for Kip Litton

To:

befreetoo@hotmail.com

Kip,

I am the Race Director for the Solstice Run in Northville, MI and many of my fellow running and community friends have brought to my attention the results of the 2009 Solstice Run 10K race event where you were credited with a finish time of 37:14.

I have evidence with videos and pictures taken at various stages of our 2009 10K race on the course and it is apparent you did not run the entire 10K course in the chip time recorded.

One example is a picture of yourself finishing:http://www.runmichigan.com/photogallery/09/solstice10k_062709me_window.php?31

We took note and recognized your tee shirt was dry on such a tough course & high temperature day. You & I know you easily shortcut the course.

My responsibility to the Solstice Run event is to conduct an organized, fair and professional race event with accurate finisher results. Therefore with the evidence in hand can you explain your appearance & lack of previous race times that would support such a solid 6 minute pace on our hilly 10K race event in Northville?

I am prepared to officially "Disqualify" your finish time in 2009 at the Solstice Run dependant on your response and explanation to the evidence received. Please respond by this Sunday, February 6th with your comments and feedback or I will need to make a decision then to process a Disqualification on your entry and finish-time in our 2009 Solstice Run 10K race.

Regards,

Alan Whitehead

Race Director

Solstice Run

www.solsticerun.org

Yes, and the Solstice 10k is just one example of several races.

Question. Where is the photo of him going under the finish line clock for the BAA 5k race in 2010? That's what I'm looking for. Can't find it. Anyone?

Achtung Baby wrote:

Yes, and the Solstice 10k is just one example of several races.

Question. Where is the photo of him going under the finish line clock for the BAA 5k race in 2010? That's what I'm looking for. Can't find it. Anyone?

Scroll down half way and Kip is in the photos of the 2010 5K there in the light blue windbreaker supposedly doing a 17:17 net 5K. What an idiot.

Achtung Baby wrote:

Yes, and the Solstice 10k is just one example of several races.

Question. Where is the photo of him going under the finish line clock for the BAA 5k race in 2010? That's what I'm looking for. Can't find it. Anyone?

Thank you.

It's beyond laughable. Such a long time to get to the starting line, 4:04 which is BS, and no witnesses seeing him flying by with an average of 18 seconds faster per quarter mile, for 12 in a row. Nope, didn't happen.