Loss of coordination in leg - Official runner's dystonia / focal dystonia discussion thread

Is this what happens to everyones leg when they talk about loss of co-ordination?

Watch the runner in white at the end of a race. He is an olympic 800m runner and doesn't suffer from this problem but does get it during this uphill race. The fact he gets it here but not at other times makes me think the cause of these issues is technique related when we begin to overwork our quads istead of using our glutes when running.

http://www.runnerstribe.com/coverage/237148-Balmoral-Burn/video/337759-2010-Bamoral-Burn-Mens-Elite

I just saw the title of this thread and I have not had time to read through it but a friend of mine experienced exactly you wrote about. She went to doctor after doctor and had all kinds of scans and PT but nothing helped for years. Then a doc decided to look for a labral tear and that is what it turned out to be.

I thought I would give this thread a bump.

frustrated runner - any updates to your labral tear surgery? It's been almost a year since you had it and I didn't see much on your twitter page.

It's been about 4 years since I've looked into any solutions but I want to give it another go.

Has anyone found any new literature or web links that shows that a hip labral tear can happen without any symptoms of pain? I plan to see an orthopedist in the very near future with the hope of getting an MRA, but it is very easy for me to picture the doctor refusing because labral tears are normally not painless and I have no pain whatsoever. Any information that is out there may help convince them to prescribe the MRA.

The other option would be to lie and say I have been experiencing debilating hip pain, but I would like to avoid that route for now.

I have had no pain aside from very rarely when bending over, but have experienced debilitating loss of coordination in my right leg during harder efforts. I got an MRI-A a year ago which showed a labral tear in my right hip. I haven't gotten surgery yet because I, nor most doctors, am not convinced that it is the cause (though it think it is my best lead).

Sorry I've been incredibly lazy about updating this. I forget that people still check it! I also have been pretty busy with other projects, but kept telling myself I'd do a big writeup on where I was at and all of my thoughts on the injury, surgery, etc., once I hit 50 miles a week. I had my surgery in April, so we're going on 10 months now. My hip has been great and I have not had any loss of coordination to speak of, but I have had a lot of secondary injuries. Mild case of plantar fasciitis, some vague hamstring tightness, several calf issues, and an issue with my talonavicular joint—something just got jammed up there. All of these were on my right leg, the one I had surgery on. Each of those necessitated a week or two off from running each, and I'm just now to the point where I am actually running every single day. I bounce between 20-25min one day and 30-35min the next. I have not done any fast running aside from a few strides once in a while. My calf still likes to tighten up at times and feels worse on hard surfaces (maybe?) and because of that and because I have not done any long or fast running, I can't say I'm "free" of the loss of coordination issue yet. In the fall I was doing 40-50min easy on pavement without issues though, so take what you may from that.

I'll update if/once I'm doing longer stuff. It will be quite a while until I do much faster running, even if everything goes perfect, so don't get your hopes up on me getting back to 100-mile weeks proclaiming that labral tear surgery is the solution to everything. It has been a very long road back and I don't even know if I'll be able to run competitively again. That being said I'm pretty grateful just to be able to do 4.5 miles today. If anyone is considering the surgery, do realize that it is a pretty serious undertaking and it will probably be a long time before you are able to compete again. Not sure if anyone posted this but it was interesting:

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/249799-2012-Flotrack-visits-CU/video/656339-Joe-Bosshard-clock-is-ticking-in-final-XC-season

Joe Bosshard of CU sounds like he had many of the same issues all of last year and had surgery for a labral tear this past May. From what I know, he did not run at all during cross country, which didn't surprise me given all the issues I was having around that time, and I had my surgery a month earlier! Granted, he has access to all of the amenities of a college team, which certainly helps.

Anyhow that is my story for now. If you are "new" to this issue, the consensus so far is strengthen the heck out of your glutes and abs, and stretch your hamstring. None of the other wacky and sometimes insane "cures" (clockwise circles around the track, orthotics, cell phones, old injections, whatever) have made exactly zero difference for anyone. if you have had this issue for a long time, and especially if you have any hip pain, see a hip doc in your area who knows labral tears in athletes (not easy to find, BTW) and get checked for one. Other possibilities to think about include sciatic nerve issues from the low back, artery issues, or nerve problems, though aside from one herniated disc none of these have panned out for anyone. Anyways I'm rambling. Good luck.

track dude wrote:

Has anyone found any new literature or web links that shows that a hip labral tear can happen without any symptoms of pain? I plan to see an orthopedist in the very near future with the hope of getting an MRA, but it is very easy for me to picture the doctor refusing because labral tears are normally not painless and I have no pain whatsoever. Any information that is out there may help convince them to prescribe the MRA.

Not really. Best I have found is this paper:

Effect of Acetabular Labral Tears on Proprioceptive Parameters of the Human Hip Joint

which demonstrates poor balance in people with labral tears presumably because of proprioceptive interference

I had the labral tear surgery 1 1/2 years ago. I have had back/imbalance problems for nearly 30 years that I have been running through (I am 54). While I got to running quickly post surgery, I still had all sorts of compensations. I got some Muscle Activation Technique work done last fall while stopping running for 2 months, because of the imbalances. Started up again and at first struggled to hit 20 mpw in November. Slowly, I was getting rid of compensations. I got up to a couple 30 mile weeks in January then I started to feel it. I did a 71 mile week the beginning of this month to see if I could, eased up for a week and have done 50 mile weeks since then. The speed isn't there yet, but for the first time in 30 years I can run without being in daily discomfort due to all my imbalances that I guess originated in the hip. I haven't felt this good after daily running (or not running) in such a long time. Prior to surgery I did some snowshoe racing and my hip would give way all the time during a race due to instability. I did a race this year and I was as solid and stable as could be (just out of shape). Give your recovery the time it needs. It will come. For me this surgery is changing the quality of my life and that is without even running. I am no longer stretching away trying to find the source of my pains.

The body uses more than one functional system to run beyond orthopedics-

neurology

endocrinology

psychiatry

the last is a bit iffy. but the first two are not.

involuntary muscle contractions or in other words "loss of coordination in leg" could be related to misfiring or overstimulating of 5-HT receptors in the brain-the same receptors targeted by SSRIs

What does exercise do? Depending on the intensity, it can increase cortisol b/c cortisol increases the body's energy capacity

What is cortisol-cortisol is a stress hormone.

In studies of rats injection of exogenous cortisol into the brains increased tryptophan uptake by brian synaptosomes or in other words greater conversion of tryptophan into serotonin

This can be demonstrated by what happens when excess serotonin occurs in the body-involuntary muscular movements or myoclonus

What is a great implicating factor in the onset of multiple sclerosis or epileptic seizures- stress

What is stressful-running.

Of course runners cognitively overcome the discomfort of exertion-pushing through the "wall" to improve performance etc etc but that doesn't mean that the ancient parts of our brains which evolved from bipedal hominids and even more simple creatures before that are evolved enough to deal adaquately to the stress we put our bodies through and thus involuntary muscle movmeent from overstimulating 5-Ht results, possibly.

What confirms my theory is that in many of the posts many people post an improvement of symptoms after a period of rest in other words a period in reduction of stress, or cortisol.

I'm not saying that anyone is psychologically incapable of dealing with the stress of running competitively, but that there is a physiological and neurological connection btw the amount of cortisol in our bodies and its effects on neurotransmitters in the brain like serotonin. By the way, cortisol crosses the blood brain barrier. And people would never have been able to run faster than anyone before them if not for the energy mobilizing and pain dulling effects of cortisol.

could be wrong. just something to consider.

Hey idiot, if you'd actually read the thread you'd find that people report that it gets WORSE after rest, not better.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hamstring+syndrome&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I read the thread a few months ago when it was forty pages and I didn't imply that all posters were getting better with rest I know there were some saying getting worse bc muscle weakness increases but I recall posts where some people were complaining about fluctuating performance sometimes improving with rest

And if I recall correctly some person was considering taking meds for possible dystonia so it's not like the topic of neurplogical factors hasn't been brought up and why so much vitriol? I qualified my post with alot of maybes or possiblys

And you have to consider that psychological stress releases cortisol as well. Wanting to run, not being able to run. Having spent many years training to perform at capacity, seeing all those years go to waste as decondition.

There are a lot of published studies that show that sports "injury" can be traatic and this injury is worse and >frustrating bc it is functional not pain. Runners have a pretty high pain threshold anyway.

Runners may technically be in "complete rest" mode but still have their hpa axis activated because of aforementioned. I'm going to tak your "idiot" yo be a reflection of your frustration that there is no clear answer.

Also don't forget vitamin d. Vita d is involved in general muscle weakness so might help with focal mus wkness. Anyway it is a hormone and makes overall functioning better. A study found a significant number of uk runners deficient. A lot of people r

Haven't read the whole thread, but I can say that loss of coordination is not likely to occur due to a musculoskeletal or soft tissue problem alone. Loss of coordination arises from a neurological source. It could be peripheral nerve or nerve root compression causing either loss of sensory or motor function, it could be an upper motor neuron problem, or it could be an extrapyramidal motor problem such as dystonia.

No doubt there are plenty of different causes for the various folks who have posted on this thread, but when I first read about this problem I thought of focal dystonia. It happens to professional symphony musicians who practice their instruments 12 hours a day. Very plausible that it could happen to runners putting in over 100 miles a week.

I have the same symptoms as most others here:

1) Loss of coordination in legs when running at tempo pace or faster on road or track.

2) Never any problem when running off road, nor when running slower than tempo pace.

3) No pain involved; only loss of motion control, mainly in left leg. Feet splaying, hips rotating, etc.

Last night, I met a runner who had suffered very similar symptoms and was ultimately diagnosed with a sports hernia.

He was operated on and returned to competitive running after a recovery period of just a few weeks.

Does anyone else have any experience of sports hernia? Could this be the root cause of our problem?

I wonder whether there is any connection/similarity between a sports hernia and labral tear?

Thanks all.

Two things:

1) This is by far the scariest thread on Letsrun, and led me to a premature/failed ending to a frustrating collegiate career.

2) Has anyone had their running form analyzed and found that they strike the ground differently with their feet? I think this ultimately was the issue for me, as I experienced much more pronation in the leg that had this issue, as my ankle/foot collapsed so much I was essentially only pushing off with my big toe and not using the rest of my foot at all.

CUXC,

I have been having leg/hip control issues for three years. Coincidentally (or not) I starting forefoot striking during all runs three years ago. Two weeks ago from today I started heel striking again to see if it will help with my hip problems. So far things have only gotten worse. I've been weight lifting for two years (including glutes) and have been doing hip specific strength exercises for a few months now. None of this seems to matter right now, but I am trying to be patient and hope that my body is simply adjusting to using new muscles for the first time in a few years. Currently, my legs lose control and I underpronate when running anything faster than about 5:45/mile pace (my old running shoes can definitely attest to the underpronation; all the soles are worn on the outside of the toe box and nowhere else). To summarize, I have a strong feeling that forefoot running has contributed in some way to this ailment affecting me, but I am still working to figure out exactly what was wrong and how to fix it.

CUXC wrote:

Two things:

1) This is by far the scariest thread on Letsrun, and led me to a premature/failed ending to a frustrating collegiate career.

2) Has anyone had their running form analyzed and found that they strike the ground differently with their feet? I think this ultimately was the issue for me, as I experienced much more pronation in the leg that had this issue, as my ankle/foot collapsed so much I was essentially only pushing off with my big toe and not using the rest of my foot at all.

In response to #2... yes, my left foot which typically gets the discoordination strikes the ground differently from my right. Well I guess that mean my right strikes differently from my left as well. I think it's clear that some sort of imbalance is typically the root cause of this problem. I've only had it come on a few times, but haven't been running competitively for awhile due to injury and prior to getting hurt this became a pretty big worry. I haven't raced for a long time (last 4-5 years) anything over 30 mins and I think that if I try this might flare up again.

Also, to respond to #1... this is a scary thread. I'm amazed that this problem is not as documented, it's amazing.