Nico Young runs 4:10, 4:16 in practice!!!

Let it Rupp wrote:

It's so weird to see people shocked that top-level athletes are doing top-level workouts. The kid is an aerobic beast, and one of the best all-time hs athletes, yes he can run really fast workouts, and no he's not f*cked his whole career because of it. Not all young talent goes to waste.

Well I was trying to think about the workout objectively.

What do you think Nico's current fitness is for 1600m and for 3200m? I would say the reasonable range is 3:58-4:02 (let's call it 4:00) for 1600, 8:35 for 3200m.

So he ran a 1600 in practice 10 seconds off his PR pace, followed up with an 800 at the same pace and then another 1600/800 and around 15 seconds off his PR pace. Seems a bit insane, no? Can you imagine doing that workout with your PRs?

If we're talking 3200 pace, that's still 1600/800/1600/800 at faster than 3200 pace. So 150% more work at faster than race pace. Seems absolutely insane, not just "top level." Historic.

There’s also the belief that just because you CAN do something, doesn’t mean you SHOULD.

I’m sure plenty of collegiate and professional coaches realize the caliber of athletes they’re working with and understand they could complete some really intense workouts - but they understand the cost/risk of that isn’t worth the reward. And that mindset is probably what got them to the top in their field.

Here’s a story: a college coach I know grew up with German Fernandez’s HS coach. When German was in high school the two stayed in contact. He said he could never come up with a workout hard enough for German to fail. He tried and tried and would actively throw impossible sounding workouts at him just to see if he could break him.

German had an amazing high school career.

I agree with you.

That said, nothing has blown up for NPHS yet, so it's hard to fault them for sticking to their formula. I don't know if any major injuries, any burnout over the course of the season, etc. Everyone seems to be performing well, from Nico to his freshman brothers to all the guys in between.

garlicaladiablo wrote:

The kid is ready for this weekends Millrose 3k. Drew Hunters HS & Chris Derricks 3k record in jeopardy?

https://youtu.be/HIMuWCqgTRk

As a coach, i would have preferred to see a 4:16 followed by a 4:10

Galen Rupp -- whose mile PR is 3:50.9 -- ran a 4:01 mile at the end of a long workout that took place after a 2 mile indoor AR.

Any former Newbury Park runners doing anything in college? I think that is a large part of what people are concerned about.

there are none, Brosnan is new

fromtheboards wrote:

there are none, Brosnan is new

Huh? He's been there four years. There are no runners who have graduated that he's coached in the past four years?

No, it's not. Parenting is a constant for every coach though admittedly it's more of an issue in some schools/demographics than others. But I'm also not necessarily talking about specific individual athletes as much as I am a coach's overall record. I'm betting we can all name a few high school programs that have kids and teams at or near the top year in and year out but who overall develop poorly or not at all later on.

Zero respect for high school coaches like that. It's much easier to get your kids to run fantastic in high school if you're willing to make long-term sacrifices for short-term gains.

What was concerning to me is the mixed messages the coach was giving. To the camera he was saying he just wanted Nico a bit under 4:20, but also was telling the camera Nico should be running 62s to get ready for the 3000m pace. 62s laps is 7:45 pace. That cannot be the goal. Even 63s is 7:52 pace which would have to be a reach at best.

Nico also seemed very concerned or unsure of the workout, especially after the first 1600 rep. And with good reason. Nico heavily positive split each 1600 rep, going out in 61, yet at each lap the coach said he was "perfect" and he should just "stay relaxed."

While the times in aggregate are impressive, they way they were executed is now what I would envision from a coach who had a clear plan for a generational talent approaching a record attempt.

THIS. You get it.

In general:

Middle schoolers shouldn't train/race like high schoolers.

High schoolers shouldn't train/race like collegians.

Collegians shouldn't train/race like pros, with some obvious exceptions , especially in the latter half of college.

Are there incredibly rare exceptions, such as those ready to go pro after high school? Of course. But they are just that - exceptions.

Dang, I watched this after the Millrose preview. That workout looks nuts. 3 miles @ goal 3k pace or maybe a little faster. The most I've done is 2 x 1600 @ 3k & then some shorter/faster reps afterwards. Looks like he was going hard from the get go. 61 first lap in the 4:10, 61 first lap in the 2:07, 61 first lap in the 4:16. I'm not here to hate. This is how a lot of high schoolers attack workouts but I would think a good coach gives more specific splits/goals. Looks like everyone was moving backwards in the workout and the coach didn't seem to mind. I'd put someone at 200 to say to slow down or speed up. I'm very impressed by this but it looks like he just sprinted 3 miles. That's awfully tough to sustain.

Nobody really good. The team wasn't really good for first few years of Brosnan coaching. The best runner to graduate in the past few years was Ethan Ronk, (4:22/14:23 at Woodbridge), so nothing really special. I'm not sure if he's made any improvement at the college level.

Imagine Hoare trying to run about 4:04 and then 2 flat and then 4:08 and then 2 flat....by himself in practice.

His upper body is running a 100m race and his lower body is running the 1600m repeat. Kid is all over the place from waist upwards. He is such an aerobic monster he's overcoming these faults regardless. The altitude training he'll do at NAU will teach him quickly that all that wasted motion is going to be costly.

Ignorance is a Choice wrote:

Zat0pek wrote:

I’ll add one more thing to this that is specific to high school coaches. I evaluate HS coaches 50% on how their athletes perform under them, and 50% how they continue to perform after them. If a kid ran fantastic in HS but you wrung everything out of him/her at that level and they didn’t continue to develop later, then you failed in my book. You didn’t coach those kids - you used them to make yourself look good.

The rare post like this right here is why I still wade through the cesspool of these boards. Spot. On.

Thanks. I struggle with the same issue.

colorunner123 wrote:

birdbeard wrote:

Well I was trying to think about the workout objectively.

What do you think Nico's current fitness is for 1600m and for 3200m? I would say the reasonable range is 3:58-4:02 (let's call it 4:00) for 1600, 8:35 for 3200m.

So he ran a 1600 in practice 10 seconds off his PR pace, followed up with an 800 at the same pace and then another 1600/800 and around 15 seconds off his PR pace. Seems a bit insane, no? Can you imagine doing that workout with your PRs?

If we're talking 3200 pace, that's still 1600/800/1600/800 at faster than 3200 pace. So 150% more work at faster than race pace. Seems absolutely insane, not just "top level." Historic.

Galen Rupp -- whose mile PR is 3:50.9 -- ran a 4:01 mile at the end of a long workout that took place after a 2 mile indoor AR.

https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20828091/opinion-galen-rupps-training-is-ridiculously-rational/

So you're advocating that Nico get on Salazar's secret sauce too?

We're talking 'bout practice

1) Nico is an aerobic beast. I think that sub-4:00 is a bit of a stretch for him, but sub-8:30 for the full 2M is as good as good as done. Possibly sub-8:25. That is 4:12/mile which he practically averaged without pacers for a three mile session

2) No coach should be expected to coach for the level above, IF they can deliver at the current level. The greatest collegiate coach is John McDonnell. Sure he produced 23 Olympic participants and a handful of medalists, but coming off of 54 individual and 40 team NCAA titles, he clearly wasn't coaching to produce Olympians, but to get titles in the here-and-now. Brosnan seems to be aggressive in this regard, but giving kids success now instead of relying on the vagaries of the NCAA is a solid call if he can make it happen, as he did in XC.

3) I agree that the positive-splitting makes me cringe a bit as a coach, but Nico seems to be a rare athlete who is suited to that style. It will be nitereting to see what Mike Smith does with hi in that regard.

4) Fingers crossed that Nico stays healthy for four more months.