Mary Tried to Rejoin NOP in April 2019

Jonathan Gault wrote:

Cain did indeed try to rejoin the NOP this year.

"As recently as this summer, I still thought: “maybe if I rejoin the team, it’ll go back to how it was.” But we all come to face our demons in some way. For me, that was seeing my old team this last spring.

"I wanted closure, wanted an apology for never helping me when I was cutting, and in my own, sad, never-fully healed heart, wanted Alberto to still take me back. I still loved him. Because when we let people emotionally break us, we crave more than anything their very approval.

"So when he opened up about his struggles... I felt maybe we were going somewhere. I was cognizant that he pushed my own story of depression and my attempts to purge aside, but I thought his opening up could be a first step. But it wasn’t.

"We quickly fell out of touch this summer, and that made the rose color glasses finally fall off. He didn’t care about me as a person; only as the product, the performer, the athlete. Then, after the USADA report dropped, I felt this quick and sudden sense of release.

"No more wanting them to like me. No more needing their approval. I could finally look at the facts, read others stories, and face: THIS SYSTEM WAS NOT OK. I stand before you today because I am strong enough, wise enough, and brave enough. Please stand with me."

Full explanation from this Twitter thread:

https://twitter.com/runmarycain/status/1192787550588604417

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Scoop McNewspaperguy wrote:

Sheer idiocy. Conspiracy theory buffoonery. In other words, typical LRP post.

Stick to the facts - many of Mary Cain's injuries happened AFTER she left NOP. She left in 2015 (first moved back to NYC being coached from distance, then the entire NOP), and was injured most of 2017 and 2018 BECAUSE OF HER OWN TRAINING.

Salazar limited her mileage, and focused on two very hard workouts a week, improving her form and strength training. Yes, he also recommended and helped her with weight but that's not the point here yet.

Cain was successful at NOP initially, but then stagnated and couldn't perform anymore. The training and environment did not help her reach the next level as a runner. She got a calf injury in 2014, and a stress fracture in 2015 due to the hard training Salazar prescribed her. She quit, because she wanted to try something new with coach Henwood. They departed on GOOD TERMS, Salazar was still available to help them.

With Henwood, she dramatically increased the mileage - easier workouts, but going up to 90, 100 mpw. THIS is what caused even more injuries. She was not built to handle high mileage, low intensity and she got worse and worse. She was working WAY too hard again, because she wanted to show NOP, Salazar and the whole world what she can do.

Now in 2019, she had a great performance at a 4-mile road race in NYC, stomping the whole field while doing merely a slow tempo effort in ~5:20 pace. She feels like she has one last chance to reach the top in running again, and that's going back to Salazar and the NOP. Salazar was laughing her off, making fun of her trying to come back and telling her she is done. This is what triggered her, realizing that she never meant anything to Salazar and he never cared for her as a person but just saw her as a gifted runner that he could use and take advantage of to win more medals. As a result, she went on a revenge trip, trying to ruin Salazar, by cooperating with big media which she achieved.

Sure, Salazar is min/maxing athletes in unethical ways - often referred to as "grey zone", same with him playing doctor for athletes. But there is much more to Cain's story than has been shown so far, it was a series of many events that led to her downfall and not just Salazar trying to optimize the weight of his athletes.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Mary The Liar wrote:

She also got a big fat check from the New York Times for her 'story'.

This all is a BIG publicity stunt. Wouldn't be surprised if it's not just NYT and Cain, but also an apparel competitor involved. After Cain was rejected at NOP in April this year, she probably reached out to other teams, likes Adidas, Brooks, Asics etc. to find a way of pursuing her pro-career aspirations again.

IF it was really that bad at NOP, why did she apply and want to go back there in April 2019? It seems that had she been accepted again, and trained under Salazar or Julian, she would not have made this article together with NYT and an independent (but with financial interests) 3rd party. It was only AFTER she was rejected, and realized she can NEVER go back to the ultimate training environment, that she decided to speak out against it and generate a significant of publicity for a runner which can be leveraged now.

dfa wrote:

I also feel that Phil is taking the deep thoughts with Jack H. approach to this whole fiasco.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

No, this is entirely Salazar's fault. She had more motivation than anyone, was super strong mentally and 100% dedicated to the sport. Remember what Salazar promised her when they met in person:

"The first time we sat down he said, 'This is a 10-year program. I don't want you peaking at age 16,'

He achieved exactly the thing he promised her not to do with her. He took over in training Cain in 2012, and upped her intensity by a lot. He would let her train with Moser who was a much more accomplished runner (in her 30's with lots of lifetime mileage and 5xUS 1500m champion) on workouts like 10x200 in 27.1s avg (200m jog) AT 5000 FT ALTITUDE!

What happened? Cain improved drastically in the short term. She PR'ed in every distance in 2013, first 4:04 in 1500m, then 1:59 in 800m, then 15:45 in 5000m. After the 15:45, which was a huge PR for the 17-year old Cain, he would keep her on the track and let her do 2x400 at best avg pace in 59 and 57, which was around 600m all-out effort for her.

What happened after were injuries. Her first was developed in Feb 2014, calf injury which prevented her from attending IAAF Indoor World's 2014. After that, she was injured every year, including stress fractures in her shins. Each injury is a major setback, at that point many runners would have given up, especially when she was racing in 2:09 and 4:25 instead of 1:59 and 4:04 and starting to get beat by runners she used to destroy all time.

The only thing a coach would have needed to do was to keep her healthy. Allow her to blossom naturally without injuries and let her talent shine. But Salazar did the only thing wrong he could have done wrong - he let her train too hard, raced her too often (even shortly after her injuries healed!), put her in the wrong races and ruined her career. Good examples of coaches that hold their athletes back are the HS coaches of Grant Fisher, Drew Hunter, and Tuohy. The first two are talented but definitely not as much as Cain was, but proper development and coaching with holding them back allowed them to shine and now have promising pro careers.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Stick to the facts - many of Mary Cain's injuries happened AFTER she left NOP. She left in 2015 (first moved back to NYC being coached from distance, then the entire NOP), and was injured most of 2017 and 2018 BECAUSE OF HER OWN TRAINING.

Salazar limited her mileage, and focused on two very hard workouts a week, improving her form and strength training. Yes, he also recommended and helped her with weight but that's not the point here yet.

Cain was successful at NOP initially, but then stagnated and couldn't perform anymore. The training and environment did not help her reach the next level as a runner. She got a calf injury in 2014, and a stress fracture in 2015 due to the hard training Salazar prescribed her. She quit, because she wanted to try something new with coach Henwood. They departed on GOOD TERMS, Salazar was still available to help them.

With Henwood, she dramatically increased the mileage - easier workouts, but going up to 90, 100 mpw. THIS is what caused even more injuries. She was not built to handle high mileage, low intensity and she got worse and worse. She was working WAY too hard again, because she wanted to show NOP, Salazar and the whole world what she can do.

Now in 2019, she had a great performance at a 4-mile road race in NYC, stomping the whole field while doing merely a slow tempo effort in ~5:20 pace. She feels like she has one last chance to reach the top in running again, and that's going back to Salazar and the NOP. Salazar was laughing her off, making fun of her trying to come back and telling her she is done. This is what triggered her, realizing that she never meant anything to Salazar and he never cared for her as a person but just saw her as a gifted runner that he could use and take advantage of to win more medals. As a result, she went on a revenge trip, trying to ruin Salazar, by cooperating with big media which she achieved.

Sure, Salazar is min/maxing athletes in unethical ways - often referred to as "grey zone", same with him playing doctor for athletes. But there is much more to Cain's story than has been shown so far, it was a series of many events that led to her downfall and not just Salazar trying to optimize the weight of his athletes.

michiduex wrote:

And you know all this how?

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Stick to the facts - many of Mary Cain's injuries happened AFTER she left NOP. She left in 2015 (first moved back to NYC being coached from distance, then the entire NOP), and was injured most of 2017 and 2018 BECAUSE OF HER OWN TRAINING.

Salazar limited her mileage, and focused on two very hard workouts a week, improving her form and strength training. Yes, he also recommended and helped her with weight but that's not the point here yet.

Cain was successful at NOP initially, but then stagnated and couldn't perform anymore. The training and environment did not help her reach the next level as a runner. She got a calf injury in 2014, and a stress fracture in 2015 due to the hard training Salazar prescribed her. She quit, because she wanted to try something new with coach Henwood. They departed on GOOD TERMS, Salazar was still available to help them.

With Henwood, she dramatically increased the mileage - easier workouts, but going up to 90, 100 mpw. THIS is what caused even more injuries. She was not built to handle high mileage, low intensity and she got worse and worse. She was working WAY too hard again, because she wanted to show NOP, Salazar and the whole world what she can do.

Now in 2019, she had a great performance at a 4-mile road race in NYC, stomping the whole field while doing merely a slow tempo effort in ~5:20 pace. She feels like she has one last chance to reach the top in running again, and that's going back to Salazar and the NOP. Salazar was laughing her off, making fun of her trying to come back and telling her she is done. This is what triggered her, realizing that she never meant anything to Salazar and he never cared for her as a person but just saw her as a gifted runner that he could use and take advantage of to win more medals. As a result, she went on a revenge trip, trying to ruin Salazar, by cooperating with big media which she achieved.

Sure, Salazar is min/maxing athletes in unethical ways - often referred to as "grey zone", same with him playing doctor for athletes. But there is much more to Cain's story than has been shown so far, it was a series of many events that led to her downfall and not just Salazar trying to optimize the weight of his athletes.

And you know all this how?