Official 2019 Paris DL Discussion Thread - Olympic champs Kipruto & Makhloufi return to the DL + The Ingebrigtsen Civil War

48.9 is too fast for those guys

ex-runner wrote:

positive split 800m is normal wrote:

Men first 400m was 5.87 seconds slower than 400m WR; women first 400m was roughly ( 7 1/2 to 8) seconds slower than WR. Male pacer was no more than 1/2 a second too fast, first 400m; female pacer was actually perfect. Elite 800m women often have a 400m P.B. of 52 or 53. Men elite 800m runners usually have 400m P.B. of 46 or 47.

48.9 is too fast for those guys

Did you read what I stated?

I conceded pacer could have gone a half a second slower in men's 800m race. That would mean the remaining men would pass through no faster than 49.65. There is nothing wrong with elite men racing first 400m 49.5 to 49.75.

The women's pacer was about 1 - 1.5 secs too fast, but as someone pointed out it seems that Rogers almost pushed her while several other women wisely stayed a couple of seconds behind. 2 secs positive split is supposed to be ideal, maybe up to 4 is o.k. But the women who ran the ca. 56 first lap ended with 6-9 sec. splits like 56 - 64.

https://static.sportresult.com/sports/at/data/2019/paris/are1110040.pdf

Jo72 wrote:

The women's pacer was about 1 - 1.5 secs too fast, but as someone pointed out it seems that Rogers almost pushed her while several other women wisely stayed a couple of seconds behind. 2 secs positive split is supposed to be ideal, maybe up to 4 is o.k. But the women who ran the ca. 56 first lap ended with 6-9 sec. splits like 56 - 64.

https://static.sportresult.com/sports/at/data/2019/paris/are1110040.pdf

This is not 1968. More elite women should be able to tolerate 56.xx first 400m with second 400 of 60.xx seconds.

55 is WAY too fast for a women 800m without Caster Semenya in it. What were they supposed to run, 1:53? Pacemakers have a prescribed time they should hit. If they miss it significantly, they should be punished since they changed the dynamics and outcome of the race. Price was supposed to go through in 57, but went in 55.

Rogers split 55-64 trusting the pacemaker and running directly behind her

Green split 57-61 doing her own thing, in the back/middle first lap

Lamote did 56-64 and had to be taken off the track by the ambulance. That's what happens when you go out in a 56 and go completely lactic, she said she can't remember the last 200m of the race and had to spend some days in the hospital.

All other runners who started too fast got the last places.

Mitchell - 56-64 9th place

Jepkosgei - 56-65 10th and last place

In women's 800m splits should be around 3-4 sec slower for the second lap. If the race goes out in 55, we are looking at a finish time of 1:53-1:54 which was a ridiculous expectation for this field.

Pacemakers need to stop believing that running as fast as possible and beating the prescribed time makes them better pacemakers and leads to better results. Yes there are many cases where they go out at the exact time and no one goes with them, that's sad but there are also the racing pacemakers who can screw entire races.

It looked like some of the women in said 800m race were determined to go out in roughly 27 seconds the first 200m. Pacemaker was not going to trail any of the ladies from 100m to 200m. Once out there at the pace, pacemaker sensing the women wanted to race fast, pacemaker kept her foot on the gas. Raevyn Rogers knows what 55 400m feels like. Raevyn Rogers knows what 57 400m feels like. Can you do either? A 55 400m or 57 400m? They do not feel the same. Rogers knew she was running fast the first 400m. Rogers just had belief she would race sub-61 second 400m. Punish the pacemaker? No.

I agree. Price would have had to cut Rogers off to run any slower. As it was, they ran 3-wide close behind her, so slowing down would have created a mess. Everyone who chose to run 57 or 58 did it and had an orderly line of people in front of them.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Lamote did 56-64 and had to be taken off the track by the ambulance. That's what happens when you go out in a 56 and go completely lactic, she said she can't remember the last 200m of the race and had to spend some days in the hospital.

??? Some days in the hospital? She raced less than 48 hours ago...

positive split 800m is normal wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

48.9 is too fast for those guys

Did you read what I stated?

I conceded pacer could have gone a half a second slower in men's 800m race. That would mean the remaining men would pass through no faster than 49.65. There is nothing wrong with elite men racing first 400m 49.5 to 49.75.

Half a second can make a huge difference when you are talking about margins like this.

5 second positive splits are pretty painful. The athletes were all swimming. Usually they run 2-3 seconds slower on the second lap.

Murphy really struggled, hitting 400 in about 49.5 and finishing in ~1:45.0

I agree 49.0 is not too fast for certain athletes such as Amos and a fit Korir or Rudisha. But not the guys in that race.

McBride might break 1:43 if he goes out in 50.

Punish the pacemaker? No.

We are in agreement.

buzzd wrote:

Makhloufi under 3:32! Finished 7th though, unreal race

Drugs not working? I guess he will be trying a new set.

Aussiestatman wrote:

I am hoping Elaine Thompson can drag two others under 11.00 in the 100

I hoping so as well, but alas... So I see Jamaica running 1 2 at Worlds in the ladies 100M this year.

USA women sprinting in crisis. We will not see a medal in distances 100-400M. Has this ever happened before?

Murca wrote:

That’s not going to worry Rai.

I think it will.

Halviking wrote:

How can 19.65 look that easy

It's not that easy. Lyles just have perfect running mechanics that make it look easy.

Scrap Doha and get ready for Tokyo wrote:

Oduduru just needs to shut it down already.

Except for Norman's - all those NCAA times are mighty suspicious.

Halviking wrote:

Great interview with Lyles at Norwegian broadcasting.

He even got a question about the technical part of a 200m.

Lyles said he has done a lot of heavy training this week to not peak way to early.

Excellent! I would like to see him drop a 19.4 or 19.3

UltraDude wrote:

I'm wondering if Lyles might threaten the 200m world record in Doha? He just broke Bolt's Paris meet record. He is only running the 200m. When he's tapered and the adrenaline is flowing on the big stage for the first time, I think it is not beyond the realm of possibility. I'd give at least 50/50 odds he takes down Michael Johnson's American record.

I don't believe Bolt's WRs will be touched anytime soon. I would like to see Lyles break MJ's mark though. As a matter of fact I would like to see Lyles drop a 19.21-19.24 before he's done.

McLeod effed Shubenkov two months ago in Rabat. This was his first race since then. Obviously, there's a problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5tA4kUmEl8