17 year old Max Burgin front runs 1:45.39!

YMMV wrote:

smoothest wrote:

Such as this race where he negative split a 1:45.08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jznJeZRBUxI

That is a 1:41 guy running tactically, he doesn't take the lead until after 700m. What Max did was very different. I'm pretty sure that Wilson had a rabbit for all or most of his PB races. Plus Wilson was an experienced master of his craft. What Max did was much more similar to the Fernandez race I linked above. A very special run by an up-and-coming talent.

Wilson wasn’t a 1:41 guy at the time and my point was you must have never seen him run if you’d “never seen someone run 1:45 so smoothly” other than Rudisha. Silly statement.

I hear what you are saying but, with due respect, niceness and good family values have nothing to do with doping. I know a local lawyer who tells me his firm has over a hundred cases of schoolboy doping on the books - most of it rugby, a major sport where I come from. I am sure many of them are nice kids from good families.

Only one thing is necessary to lead to doping: the desire to succeed. All athletes will have that. I doubt that it is possible to get to the top now without doping. So when I see athletes run incredible times - whatever their age or nationality - yeah, I'm sceptical.

[quote]scrags wrote:

I've been watching this sport for enough years to know that these phenomoneal youngsters rarely keep the same rate of progress,

Well since he's improved 1.5 seconds in the last week I think its fairly safe to say he won't keep that rate of progress

smoothest wrote:

YMMV wrote:

That is a 1:41 guy running tactically, he doesn't take the lead until after 700m. What Max did was very different. I'm pretty sure that Wilson had a rabbit for all or most of his PB races. Plus Wilson was an experienced master of his craft. What Max did was much more similar to the Fernandez race I linked above. A very special run by an up-and-coming talent.

Wilson wasn’t a 1:41 guy at the time and my point was you must have never seen him run if you’d “never seen someone run 1:45 so smoothly” other than Rudisha. Silly statement.

I meant to, and should have, written "front run so smoothly", which is what I really meant. My bad. I loved following Kipketer back in the day, and this kid seems to have than kind of potential.

?

Will he go to an NCAA School next Year, If he does the NCAA 800 will be great with Bryce Hoppel, Devin Dixon and Burgin, Maybe all 3 break 1:44.00 NEXT Year.

smoothest wrote:

smoothest wrote:

Then you never watched Kipketer race.

Such as this race where he negative split a 1:45.08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jznJeZRBUxI

Ah Rodal and the Nandrolone thigh muscles. What does that say for the others?

I'm a clinic regular. I don't need lessons about the whys, wherefores and hows. You can choose not to believe me if you like, but I'm close enough to the lad to tell you that what you're seeing is real and not aided by PEDs. I personally wouldn't be on here talking about him if I had any suspicion at all. That's all I can do for you. It would be a shame for you not to enjoy it.

Coevett wrote:

If he was American there would be 20 posts on the front page about this.

1st it seems to be getting plenty of interest.

2nd - You mean if he was the same nationality where the vast majority of the site's clicks come from this performance would get greater interest.

Shocking!

BS wrote:

Coevett wrote:

If he was American there would be 20 posts on the front page about this.

1st it seems to be getting plenty of interest.

2nd - You mean if he was the same nationality where the vast majority of the site's clicks come from this performance would get greater interest.

Shocking!

If he was Kenyan this thread might have 10 posts instead of 111 and growing.

BS wrote:

Coevett wrote:

If he was American there would be 20 posts on the front page about this.

1st it seems to be getting plenty of interest.

2nd - You mean if he was the same nationality where the vast majority of the site's clicks come from this performance would get greater interest.

Shocking!

Agreed.

Except my throwaway point was that nobody would be complaining if there were 20 posts about him (if he was American).

Lopper wrote:

If he was Kenyan this thread might have 10 posts instead of 111 and growing.

I'd bett that if he was Kenyan, there would be several posts about him and probably less accusations of doping (with accusations of racism against anyone who dared).

Armstronglivs wrote:

I hear what you are saying but, with due respect, niceness and good family values have nothing to do with doping. I know a local lawyer who tells me his firm has over a hundred cases of schoolboy doping on the books - most of it rugby, a major sport where I come from. I am sure many of them are nice kids from good families.

Only one thing is necessary to lead to doping: the desire to succeed. All athletes will have that. I doubt that it is possible to get to the top now without doping. So when I see athletes run incredible times - whatever their age or nationality - yeah, I'm sceptical.

I find it hard to believe that a local lawyer in Australia or New Zealand (I'm assuming you're from one of those countries) would have 100 cases of schoolboy doping on their books. When a couple of local pub side Rugby players in New Zealand got busted for steroids last year (might not even have had anything to do with their Rugby), it made international news and morans here like ex-runner used it as 'evidence' that New Zealand had as great a doping problem as Kenya.

Your belief that anybody who wants to get to the top in athletics would take drugs, and that it is necessary to take drugs to get to the top, are both assumptions. What on Earth would Herb Elliott run on today's Monaco track with today's competition, even if modern shoes and the like wouldn't make any difference (contrary to the evidence)? He probably wasn't even at his peak when he retired at 22.

I wonder when this thread will finally get rekrunnered?

Coevett wrote:

I wonder when this thread will finally get rekrunnered?

Noo, you mentioned his name!

But in this case you might enjoy rekrunner explaining why the thread's subject is super clean with super blood.

Coevett wrote:

Lopper wrote:

If he was Kenyan this thread might have 10 posts instead of 111 and growing.

I'd bett that if he was Kenyan, there would be several posts about him and probably less accusations of doping (with accusations of racism against anyone who dared).

The reason there are so many posts in this thread are because he is white. Absolutely no doubt about that son.

I found it hard to believe, too. But the information was given in confidence by a colleague of the lawyer involved, as it wasn't something they wanted people to know about. It doesn't find its way into the media. I was also told by another contact who was close to officials in world rugby that there were a whole heap of doping violations that arose out of the Rugby World Cup held in New Zealand a few years ago. For obvious reasons, the sport isn't going to advertise this information.

I agree that with modern conditions, a runner like Elliott could have recorded faster times than in his era, but from discussion elsewhere on this board the difference in times may not be as great as you think.

We know that doping has been rampant in some places and in some eras more than others, but increasingly the information I have is that it is everywhere now; in all sports and in all countries. Al Jazeera recently published a series of programmes making just that point. Track and field and running were reported to be amongst the leading dopers - like we saw in cycling.

I would like to believe in the exceptional performances that come out of the sport, but I fear the world we live in has changed too much for that. Even Nick Willis has said "people should no longer follow our dirty sport". If Caucasian athletes are running as fast or faster than what doped African performers have done then it is likely they have all caught the same train. As former WADA head Richard Pound says, "only the dumb or careless" get caught. Makes it easy, then, doesn't it?

yawn...okay

Benchmark times wrote:

Does anyone know how this compares to 17 year old Coe or Ovett?

Considerably faster, obviously. Full records of the progressions of both can be found at

and

Coe was by no means a prodigy; Ovett, on the other hand, WAS--yet even he recorded considerably slower times over 800 meters at the same age. He may have been capable of running significantly faster, yet his MO until 1979 was generally to run to win as economically as possible, often hitting the front in the closing meters.

Here is Ovett at 17, in 1973:

If you are looking for a comparably prodigious talent who did often run from the front, one who immediately springs to mind is all-time great

, who ran 1:44.3 at 18.