William Peyton wrote:Bowling is a team sport. Perhaps not in as strong a way as football, but never-the-less it can be a team sport.To quote Coach Mikey Morrison from the 1985 movie Just One of the Guys, "But it's more than a game, it's the ultimate challenge. One man, one ball, 10 pins."
Armstronglivs wrote:
YMMV wrote:
Peter Snell is one of the best all-around athletes in history. He was a national-class tennis player as a teen, cleaned up in two Olympics as a runner, and went on to win the Superstars competition when he was pushing 40.
All true. But distinguished - in every way - by his rarity. I suggest very few runners would have his range of sporting talents.
If by "very few", you mean "absolutely none", then we agree.
Imagine all the top Kenyans taking an in-prime Snell on, by himself, in a game of rugby....carnage would result.
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I've competed in downhill ski racing (not particularly successfully). To say that running requires skill is almost laughable. Sure - there is some technique to be efficient. But it's a world away from trying to get within inches of a gate while flying down the hill at more than 60 miles an hour. There the smallest differences in angulation of the body, hand position etc. make the difference between winning or losing or crashing very painfully.
I'm in awe at the skill of figure skiers or freestyle skiers. I have no idea how they figure out their body position while twisting upside through the air.
We spend our childhood learning the skill of crawling, then standing, then walking, then jogging then running, then running fast, then running faster for longer. Then maybe we get serious about running and it takes many more years to reach our peak, which is still well below the most efficient runnners in the world.
To say that running requires no skill is fantastically stupid.
YMMV wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So how many distance runners have excelled at a sport other than running?
Peter Snell is one of the best all-around athletes in history. He was a national-class tennis player as a teen, cleaned up in two Olympics as a runner, and went on to win the Superstars competition when he was pushing 40.
He also won the Superstars competition with his hamstring blown apart. Can you imagine how he good he would have been without that injury?
Precious Roy wrote:
Strongly disagree. A more accurate observation would be that there is no barrier to entry for running. E.
Agree with this one. Running is by far the most competitive sport in the world. Bolt became a professional soccer player off pretty much zero training or experience in the game. Can you imagine how good someone like Rupp would be as a soccer player? He would literally dominate because his repeat speed ability would be off the charts compared with every single soccer player out there. I guess that he is too passionate about running though which is running's gain and soccer's loss.
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How about running a "fast" marathon while juggling? Where is that in terms of skill?
That is not really true.. look at sports like baseball where chubby kids run stand around for most of the game. Anyone can be a runner but not everyone can be a good one. Dumb statement to claim that the sport takes no skill. Running is one of the most physically and mentally demanding sports.
agree wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:
Strongly disagree. A more accurate observation would be that there is no barrier to entry for running. E.
Agree with this one. Running is by far the most competitive sport in the world. Bolt became a professional soccer player off pretty much zero training or experience in the game. Can you imagine how good someone like Rupp would be as a soccer player? He would literally dominate because his repeat speed ability would be off the charts compared with every single soccer player out there. I guess that he is too passionate about running though which is running's gain and soccer's loss.
Conversely,
Many top rated pro soccer players could conceivably run under 18 minutes for a 5k without really trying.
Running is to a skill!! It takes a skill to set the alarm clock in order to wake up in the morning and I do that every day... Running is a skill sport!!"
trackmaster360 wrote:
That is not really true.. look at sports like baseball where chubby kids run stand around for most of the game. Anyone can be a runner but not everyone can be a good one. Dumb statement to claim that the sport takes no skill. Running is one of the most physically and mentally demanding sports.
No a dumb statement is to claim running is a skill and the state that it is one of "the most physically and mentally demanding sports" with completely NO reference to skill. That would be really dumb.
Nobody is saying that it's easy. Nobody says that it doesn't take strength, stamina, speed, and endurance... but it takes very very very little skill.
Let’s put it this way: in terms of racing/competing against other people, there aren’t as many athletic intangibles a runner can improve upon compared to other sports, such as ball sports. However, I would like to believe that there are certain mental traits that a runner can have to give them an advantage, but that would probably fall under the general category of “discipline, hard work, consistency” et al. Because running is aerobic, most movements during a race are a bit slower and there’s more time to react. During a game (or any other event), there is usually a lot more anaerobic action; thus, an athlete undergoing anaerobic activity needs to make quick AND calculated moves. This combination of necessities seems to be the main reason that other sports require more skill and larger skill sets than the sport of distance running. Ya feel me my dude?
EZ10Miler wrote:
No a dumb statement is to claim running is a skill and the state that it is one of "the most physically and mentally demanding sports" with completely NO reference to skill. That would be really dumb.
Nobody is saying that it's easy. Nobody says that it doesn't take strength, stamina, speed, and endurance... but it takes very very very little skill.
Exactly! A very tough and demanding sport that requires very little if any skill.
agree wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:
Strongly disagree. A more accurate observation would be that there is no barrier to entry for running. E.
Agree with this one. Running is by far the most competitive sport in the world. Bolt became a professional soccer player off pretty much zero training or experience in the game. Can you imagine how good someone like Rupp would be as a soccer player? He would literally dominate because his repeat speed ability would be off the charts compared with every single soccer player out there. I guess that he is too passionate about running though which is running's gain and soccer's loss.
This will be the most ridiculous thing I read this year. Rupp couldn't do well against female soccer players. He is a waif, and would get man-handled by the men. This twiggy legs would snap like a toothpick.
This goes to the heart of the debate that non-runners or non-serious ones say that running is boring. They mean it's just one foot in front of the other etc. And when compared to other sports it requires limited technical mastery it is undoubtedly true. Yes it requires pacing and adapting your gait etc but that's not hard to sort out.
But the skill of running that we all enjoy is in your head. Distance running is about you deal with stress. It's about hard work, improving, getting fit, doing all the different types of fitness training etc and then it's about developing a mental toughness that allows you to perform under what most people who don't run would describe as severe pain and would no doubt stop immediately. Good runners know the different pain thresholds intimately and how well and for how long they can perform in them. Learning and mastering that is a skill if ever there was one. I's imagine there are few if any other sports that are so familiar with this kind of expertise.
YMMV wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So how many distance runners have excelled at a sport other than running?
Peter Snell is one of the best all-around athletes in history. He was a national-class tennis player as a teen, cleaned up in two Olympics as a runner, and went on to win the Superstars competition when he was pushing 40.
He also reached a high level at orienteering and now competes as an international table tennis player at masters tournaments.
Armstronglivs wrote:
YMMV wrote:
If by "very few", you mean "absolutely none", then we agree.
Imagine all the top Kenyans taking an in-prime Snell on, by himself, in a game of rugby....carnage would result.
The main reason most distance runners don't excel at other sports is that they are the "wrong" body type: small, slightly-built ectomorphs, slow-twitch - which is ideal for running but not much else. Most other sports favour bigger stronger more-heavily-muscled athletes with explosive power - fast twitch. The few exceptions are Snell, as we've noted - he was way more heavily-muscled than most middle distance runners, and Juantorena, at 6'2" he was like a big sprinter; he was also a good basketball player.
Was Snell really an exception back then, or do we just remember Snell (because he's an all -time great?). In any case, he's an exception that disproves the rule. Maybe it's likely that middle-distance running would be dominated by Snell types if such athletes didn't tend to choose 100 different other sports that pay way more than elite 800m running.
I agree about distance running I suppose, and that's to an extent why Kenyans dominate as they're simply not good at any other sport, so all their top athletes go into that.
Easy to learn, hard to master.