Mary Cain DNF

gwalkerruns wrote:

With a pr 13 seconds off the leader she should have gotten into a race that was around 910 to 920. Two years is an eternity and workouts alone will not do.

Here is your answer!

Unless coach/athlete know something far beyond us armchair fans, why would you start a two year layoff comeback with a race that is not your best event and you are really nowhere near the group in terms of PR's.

Of course I have hindsight, but if not a much slower 3K field, why not a mid-tier 800 or even a 1500? A 3K is a long time out there to stay on top of the mental/physical intenisty when you haven't raced in YEARS, especially if the field is far better on paper. Save this VO2 stuff for practice and use races to re-learn how to compete and handle racing stresses.

Since the coach/athlete have perspective we don't, I would love to hear things from their point of view.

anyone know why Cain chose a to race a 3000m as her first race back? 3k is near the top of her range. For a first race back where you are still working on your fitness, something shorter like an 800m would make more sense.

cainmarysad wrote:

DNS, not DNF. She scared or hurt.

Well, a DNS is a DNF, so...

Wow, I'm impressed! You have the ability to simply look at Mary Cain in that video and know that there's nothing wrong with her other than lack of conditioning and racing for the last two years? I guess being in the sport as a coach and field athlete for over 40 years makes you more of an authority on mental, physical, or medical issues by simply "looking" at someone in a video rather than having them get a proper professional/medical evaluation. And talent never goes away? Yeah, you can develop MS, have CMT disease, endocrine or rheumatologic disorders, or develop chronic anemic conditions, (not to mention physiologic changes from aging, hint, hint), but that's never taken away one's talent. And it's "moran", you moran.

Agree that the Cain team is likely using this as both a gauge and a workout, and a means of rounding into shape. Eager to see where her fitness is at in a couple of months.

How many examples do we need to see of talent going away before people like you believe that it happens?

I've heard that phrase "talent doesn't go away" on Letsrun SO MANY TIMES. And every time that person never ends up running fast again. I heard it about Alan Webb when he suddenly got mediocre. I heard it about Ryan Hall when he started running 2:20 marathons. I heard it about Leo Manzano when he went from US Team to getting DFL every race in under a year. I heard it about German Fernandez when he was running 14:00+ 5ks as a pro. And in every one of those cases, their talent had gone away and they never ran fast again. And those were all men in their 20s and 30s. It's even more true for teenage girl phenoms like Mary. Hell, people were saying that Al*na H*dley was going to be just fine and look what happened to her.

Why are you using the * symbols when typing her name?

And isn't she making a comeback?

Javman wrote:

boocoo

I believe the word you are looking for is "beaucoup".

the NOP way wrote:

This result is not even slightly surprising.

What do you expect from someone who trained in a group whose star runner, an example to her, DNFd and DNSd more races than any other elite in the business?

Once they get that DNS in them, it is always an option when things aren't going just right. (Although Centro at least shows the gonads to finish out races where his result isn't great.)

3hr-marathoner wrote:

anyone know why Cain chose a to race a 3000m as her first race back? 3k is near the top of her range. For a first race back where you are still working on your fitness, something shorter like an 800m would make more sense.

There are a couple of people saying this, but I am not so sure.

For a lot of runners, speed isn't as natural as endurance. Think of Solomon and Symmonds. Solomon would definitely rather open with a 400 or 600, while Symmonds tended to race overdistance early season.

If you are coming back with a nice block of aerobic work and haven't yet sharpened and done anything race-specific, over-distance is a better test. (I can grind an OK 5k anytime all year, but racing 800 or 1500 near my best takes more specific preparation.)

FordhamXC wrote:

Rank Lane ID Name SB Team Cat Result Info Video

1 9 2410 Buscomb Camille New Zealand Sen 8:45.97

2 2 2402 Purrier Elinor 8.55.68 United States Sen 8:46.43

3 15 2417 O'Connell Jessica Canada Sen 8:46.86

4 7 2408 Sisson Emily 9.01.02 United States Sen 8:49.61

5 1 2401 LaCaze Genevieve 9.22.82 Australia Sen 8:50.02

6 6 2407 Pagano Sarah 8.58.42 United States Sen 8:56.53

7 11 2413 Seccafien Andrea 9.11.06 Canada Sen 8:57.37

8 4 2404 Duncan Melissa 9.07.18 Australia Sen 8:58.70

9 3 2403 Nilsson Linn 8.57.89 Sweden Sen 9:07.31

10 12 2414 Duck Claire Great Britain Sen 9:15.81

11 14 2416 Ilarda Bri United States Sen 9:17.50

12 10 2411 Tsutsui Sakiho Japan Sen 9:24.23

5 2405 Cain Mary United States Sen DNS

13 2415 Finn Michelle Ireland Sen DNS PACE

Any info?

LRC moderator's note: While Cain is listed as a DNS in the results, that is incorrect. She started the race.

Here is our recap of the race. You can also re-watch here:

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2018/07/mary-cain-winds-dnf-first-track-race-2-years/

Very, very poor decision for the coach to have her run in a quality field like this first time out this summer. Should have her her in low key confidence building races and fitness testers. Work her way up through the balance of the summer. Maybe not even have her track race, have her do some road stuff.

El Keniano wrote:

So what happened with her? The Kenyan girls were no match her at the world youths.

I don’t think that Cain ever went to world youth, but she did go to world junior in 2012 and finished 6th in the 1500. The winner that year was Faith Kipyegon. Faith has had a very good career since then and still going strong. This proves that not all women junior superstars die off fast.

Idiot coach wrote:

Very, very poor decision for the coach to have her run in a quality field like this first time out this summer. Should have her her in low key confidence building races and fitness testers. Work her way up through the balance of the summer. Maybe not even have her track race, have her do some road stuff.

You nailed it. What were they thinking?

I would have started in low key races, probably 5Ks. That way, when she inevitably doesn't win, the response is, "We are racing over distance to build her fitness and base back up." That keeps her confidence up and the expectations down.

Hshdhdjd wrote:

I don’t think that Cain ever went to world youth, but she did go to world junior in 2012 and finished 6th in the 1500. The winner that year was Faith Kipyegon. Faith has had a very good career since then and still going strong. This proves that not all women junior superstars die off fast.

Ajee Wilson, who won the 800 in 2012, has also had a pretty good career. Jessica Judd, who finished .05 seconds behind Wilson, not so much. Ditto for the women who finished behind Kipyegon.

The real question is whose career is typical, Cain or Kipyegon? To answer that, we'd need to look at history more systematically.

PS You do know that Cain ran World Juniors in 2014, right?

Could it be that she just wanted a vacation and picked a cool little meet that looked like fun? Maybe she chose the 3000 because she hasn't done a lot of speed work and thought the slower pace might be more within reach? Just a theory, could be wrong. Probably am.

I am surprised, though, that she didn't seem to have a better feel for what she was capable of going in and that she dropped out. Unless there is an injury or illness that we aren't privy to, which is entirely possible.

huppop wrote:

I don't get it. She ran 9:38 two-miles at age 16! How can she be slow now??

Because she ran 9:38 at 16.

Take a look at the careers of the girls who ran HS distance records, say from 1500-5000. Almost none made significant, if any, progress later with the usual exceptions that prove the rule (e.g., Hasay).

Now go look at the HS performances of the women who made the Rio team, for example. Their HS 1600 PR probably averaged about 4:50 +/-. Infeld was the fastest at 4:41. Both Coburn and Frerichs were multi-sport athletes. Coburn didn’t break 11:00 or 5:00 and Frerichs didn’t even run in a state meet. In other words they were very, very good (sometimes at other sports) but not the record breakers. History shows that generally the earlier female bloomers performance-wise usually aren’t the ones who continue to progress.

"boocoo" is the illiterate Americanized version of the French adverb "beaucoup" meaning much or many.

sdfsdfdsfsf wrote:

Idiot coach wrote:

Very, very poor decision for the coach to have her run in a quality field like this first time out this summer. Should have her her in low key confidence building races and fitness testers. Work her way up through the balance of the summer. Maybe not even have her track race, have her do some road stuff.

You nailed it. What were they thinking?

I would have started in low key races, probably 5Ks. That way, when she inevitably doesn't win, the response is, "We are racing over distance to build her fitness and base back up." That keeps her confidence up and the expectations down.

100% agree. It makes no sense to put her in a race with some of the best 3K runners in the world after a 2 yr layoff. I don't care how much training or time trials she may have had under her belt. Racing is a different animal. And I don't buy the 'story' that was mentioned that this was a "training race" for her. Right now (if ever) she's not in that category of runners that can jump into major events internationally as a 'training'. This race did zippo for her head.

This is the guy coaching Cain -

http://www.johnhenwood.com

Are you kidding me this is who team Cain put their faith in?

There is nothing here that shows he is at all qualified to be her coach and might explain why since the switch from Salazar her performances have dropped off great ly.