If you wear Nike Vaporfly 4% running shoes in races, you are cheating. Plain and Simple.

What I don’t understand is if it’s the plate and not the foam that gives the unfair advantage then why wasn’t the plate highlighted in the Nike-sponsored publication? I’m assuming we’ve all actually read the scientific publication otherwise why would we be debating the legality of the shoes. Amirite? Maybe my tinfoil hat is not on tight enough?

ok mr self proclaimed authority wrote:

zoomzoomzoom wrote:

there is no foam on the planet that gives back more than 1% to running economy

source?

Even if true, it's not clear the foam being very light and responsive isn't a big part of the supposed benefit.

deafening silence.

The critical point is availability. If there is a barrier to access that weighs more heavily on some than on others, then you begin to have an unfair advantage for those for whom the barriers weigh less heavily.

This is my primary criticism of PEDs - some say to make them legal, so everyone is using them and the advantages level out. But what this really becomes is a race for who can get access to the latest and best PED, the best doctors, the best supply, the best support. Often, there is a financial and, hence first-world advantage to the best access to the best performance enhancement, so it really doesn't level out at all.

I suspect a similar case can be made for high-performance shoes.

PEDS are banned because like most other banned drugs they are harmful to the body and not because they are inaccessible to some. Nearly all sports have an accessibility issue . Running, due to its simplicity, has been immune to this mostly although someone could argue that price tag of every day trainer has always created accessibility issues for runners in many parts of the world.

I agree PEDs are and should be banned due to the long-term, sometimes permanent effects, especially for adolescents and early adults who comprise a large portion of the potential user pool if PEDs are decriminalised.

Having seen the effects first on the bodybuilding community and then on more and more young men generally, I hope discussion of these effects will become more widespread - to my mind some young men have been destroying their bodies to live up to certain social ideals, with society at large utterly uninterested in either the causes or effects.

Quill wrote:

The critical point is availability. If there is a barrier to access that weighs more heavily on some than on others, then you begin to have an unfair advantage for those for whom the barriers weigh less heavily.

The high price and limited availability are the main reasons that we care so much about these shoes. If they costs $75 and more people could buy them, I don't think there would be such an outcry.

Honestly, unless you are world class athlete or someone that can compete for wins in faster marathons or qualify for Olympic Trials, there is no point to owning these shoes. Let's say you take a couple minutes off your half marathon PR or a few off your marathon PR. Nobody cares if you are ran a 2:38 or 2:35. They will be impressed that you could run a marathon in the first place, or run it under 3 hours. Otherwise, nobody cares.

At the end of the day, it's just you wacking yourself off to your PRs and saying the shoes made a difference. Seriously, nobody cares.

Dril wrote:

Math Professer wrote:

Thank you! I recognize that you are too proud to admit your mistakes, so you hide your conciliatory respect amongst attempted outward defiance, but I can read between the lines. Professer Dumbledore was widely respected for his mastery of his art. There could be no greater compliment to bestow upon a professer than to favorably compare him to Albus Dumbledore. He was a true gentlemen and a scholar. A hero even.

Yes you are the hero of subtraction! You should wear a cape to the elementary school on Monday and solidify your position as the most special professor at the school!

Finally! I've been trolling you for over a day and you look and stretch for insults and it took you that long to notice I was spelling professor wrong? Come on....moist saw through my whole bit in 2 minutes.

vivalarepublica wrote:

At the end of the day, it's just you wacking yourself off to your PRs and saying the shoes made a difference. Seriously, nobody cares.

Here's the real mic drop statement.^

The most confusing part about the VF for me has been how many people are willingly and enthusiastically ceding their PRs to a pair of shoes. I want all the credit for my PRs. Even if I wore VF I would never admit it's because of my shoes.

Math Professer wrote:

vivalarepublica wrote:

At the end of the day, it's just you wacking yourself off to your PRs and saying the shoes made a difference. Seriously, nobody cares.

Here's the real mic drop statement.^

The most confusing part about the VF for me has been how many people are willingly and enthusiastically ceding their PRs to a pair of shoes. I want all the credit for my PRs. Even if I wore VF I would never admit it's because of my shoes.

Why would you be dishonest with yourself? Nobody cares about your PRs except you.

This comes down to why we all run in the first place. I fall into the category of someone who runs to reach whatever potential I have. If the shoe makes me a few seconds faster I don’t think that would matter so much. But I don’t want to call myself a 2:29 marathoner if all I could do without a pair of Vaporflys is a 2:35.

#firstworldproblems

Who cares. The best will always be the best.

The more you post the stupider you sound.

Go drop a ball on some proprietary foam compounds, the ball will bounce to a different height on each foam, in basic terms, the height it bounces relative to the drop height is the energy return. If you drop a ball from 100ft up, you will get a return of greater than 1ft (1%).

The foam in the 4% is a new compound and as such has performance gains, the foam has substantially more effect than the carbon plate.

this three second video shows in a heartbeat why the vaporfly is a complete joke to be allowed in a race

(also moots any argument about the foam vs the carbon spring)

this is ridiculous - try doing this with ANY other shoe:

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1007958930595565568/pu/vid/360x640/6Ohbn53rmY-O0p0Y.mp4

you are running on a trampoline

IAAF has a lot of explaining to do, they are clearly in the pocket of shoe manufacturers

zoomzoomzoom wrote:

this three second video shows in a heartbeat why the vaporfly is a complete joke to be allowed in a race

(also moots any argument about the foam vs the carbon spring)

this is ridiculous - try doing this with ANY other shoe:

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1007958930595565568/pu/vid/360x640/6Ohbn53rmY-O0p0Y.mp4

you are running on a trampoline

IAAF has a lot of explaining to do, they are clearly in the pocket of shoe manufacturers

Holy s h i t !

That's it that shoe is a springboard! You are officially cheating or cheated if you have run in that shoe.

Dibaba time is a fake time

Hasay's time is fake time

Rupp's time is a fake time

Craggs time is a fake time.

stinson lost a lot of money to Derrick at US half champs. He lost by 1 second to vaporflys. What happens when the shoes get banned?

Did Nike start this thread? Because this is the kind of hype that sells shoes.

The elite runners have custom lasted shoes. That is a tremendous advantage which other mere mortals do not have and will not have as long as everyone is more interested in cushioning and springs.

Many (if not most) of the problems people have with shoes would disappear if their shoes were made to actually fit perfectly.

Any company which can reliably provide custom lasted shoes at a vaguely reasonable price to the average consumer will take over the industry. That is the future of running shoes.

You could put rockets on your shoes, but if they don’t actually fit your feet, they are useless.

Coming to America wrote:

stinson lost a lot of money to Derrick at US half champs. He lost by 1 second to vaporflys. What happens when the shoes get banned?

pigs fly

Bunion Soup wrote:

Did Nike start this thread? Because this is the kind of hype that sells shoes.

The elite runners have custom lasted shoes. That is a tremendous advantage which other mere mortals do not have and will not have as long as everyone is more interested in cushioning and springs.

Many (if not most) of the problems people have with shoes would disappear if their shoes were made to actually fit perfectly.

Any company which can reliably provide custom lasted shoes at a vaguely reasonable price to the average consumer will take over the industry. That is the future of running shoes.

You could put rockets on your shoes, but if they don’t actually fit your feet, they are useless.

No. I started this damn thread, and I'm not down with Oregon.....so swoosh(!) with the tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.