The emperor has no clothes: Jemima Sumgong has tested positive for EPO!!!

No need to single out countries or training groups or come up with cultural or historical explanations. A large percentage of endurance athletes cheat. Runners from Kenya, Ethiopia, China, Finland and the US and everywhere else. Cyclists from Texas and Europe. Cross country skiers from Scandinavian countries. Fair to assume that 40-60 percent of top runners since the 1970s have been dirty. Some are clean but can't tell who. If it's not EPO, it's sham thyroid prescriptions. And the most adamant anti-dopers who have great explanations for why they are clean are often dirty. Sport is no fun bc you cannot believe anyone.

Can't say everyone is clean or dirty but we can say most runners who are world class are dirty.

I have no confidence that anyone (in any popular category) who metaled at the Olympics was clean.

webby wrote:

wejo wrote:

My point is saying "All Kenyans are doping" is way too simplistic. Just as is "All Americans are clean"

I'm willing to split the difference and say that most world class runners are dirty.

casual obsever wrote:

Ha ha ha.

Canova, like trollrunner, will use this as evidence that EPO doesn't help Africans. Obviously. Because she was clean last year and before that, and now started doping because of her weak mind, yet didn't improve at all.

That's pretty good. What's funny is to hear about Rosa being so convictive with his ethical statements and compare that to Canova's passionate arguments on these boards about the same. Lying about it enough to convince yourself they are clean won't make them clean. Pick any group on the planet and I can give you plenty of reasons why they would dope. It is all so crazy it's laughable.

Say what you want about American runners, but in all these years I have heard not a whisper of credible unethical practice from Jerry Schumacher's group. Shalane losing to these dopers only buttresses my faith in Schu's program.

Renato will point to Sumgong banging her head in London as the point where she lost her sense and fell for the Western lie that EPO can help Kenyans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-MErGG06iM

wejo wrote:

Doping is obviously a problem in Kenya but don't pretend there aren't way more Kenyan runners competing now than in the 1980s. To say they are all doping is way too simplistic.

"

That is exctly my point, if they are now 70 awesome Kenyan runners in the "post EPO" era that can pop sub 2:07s Marathons like they are just a workout then there national federation should have been able to easily find at least one of these amazing guys in the 80s almost randomly and have him dominate everything back then (if they are all clean that is). However history shows that did not happen

It is especially suspicious when you consider alot of these top guys do it on a lifelong training scheme consisting of no developmental youth track speed work (and it shows when you watch there form), no long term base mileage but rather just youth farm work and alot of miles for a year or two.

As for considering all of them doping being too simplistic, I would disagree, like the Russian ban I think it is just simple enough.

Seattle escapee wrote:

Say what you want about American runners, but in all these years I have heard not a whisper of credible unethical practice from Jerry Schumacher's group. Shalane losing to these dopers only buttresses my faith in Schu's program.

I'm not saying they are doping, only that if it turned out they are, you should not be surprised at all. Btw it is naive to just point to certain group as clean or dirty. Athletes are adults and make their own decisions. Consider that individual athletes may have access to and try doping without their coach or group members knowing.

fakerthanfake wrote:

well there were cases were athletes paid money to officials of the nation organisations to be "forgotten". If a system like this exists and works then one has to guess that we dont hear anything in most cases.

Then you would expect that only poor athletes get banned. Sumgong would be rolling in money at this point.

Sorry, I need more than "Anyone could go rogue any time" to indict a top program which has been in the limelight for over a decade without any credible suspicions. As a coach, I know that the culture the coach establishes makes a big difference, such as the "gray area" of the NOP.

Wejo-Rojo,

Give us some hope please--tell us why we should believe that dreams become reality without EPO. Write an article about why we should have any faith in the sport.

You guys know more about the world running scene than your loyal LetsRunners do. Tell us why we should think that more than a small number of top-level distance runners are clean. Of course, some runners are clean. But isn't it now a fair assumption that: (1) many of the top 50 runners in any event are dirty and (2) we cannot tell the difference between who is dirty and clean? Please explain why this is wrong.

If you asked me whether a top cyclist is dirty, without knowing anything about the identity of the cyclist, I would confidently tell you the answer is yes. And I think most people on these boards would agree about cycling being dirty. But why should we think that running is any different? The Kenyans are no worse than anyone else--the problem is that everyone is pretty bad.

webby wrote:

wejo wrote:

My point is saying "All Kenyans are doping" is way too simplistic. Just as is "All Americans are clean"

I'm willing to split the difference and say that most world class runners are dirty.

Most play by the rules. I would guess that most of the people in your job don't steal from the company.

I bet that she will claim that she was given EPO by some doctor in Mombasa by chance - malaria medicine, maybe? Like all others caught in recent years.

It is not organized, maybe it is not for those who wants to ENTER in training camps (there - it is money, if you not inside you are nobody) between "elite". So they doping and become better and then enter training camps were Italians made miracles... and we have superhuman racers on EPO and probably some other stuff.

If you are not tested at least 10 times, by not your country but independent testers, in Olympic or WC years you can't compete. Not once or twice but at least 10 times.

Once busted for something like EPO - ban for a life not only in athletics but in sport as well and if you coaching some athlete at latter time (while under suspension) he will be punished as well. No TUEs allowed.

Keep samples for 25 years.

Coaches, agents, managers - first athlete found dirty - 2 years suspension, 2nd out for a life.

Times achieved will be like watching paraolympics.

No more under 10s, no more under 20s, no more under 44s, no more under 1:43 etc. Limits will be reset to HUMAN level again.

Or let then use everything - that will be funny - broken bones, torn ligaments, blood everywhere just like old Colosseum. I vote for this option.

Ugh2 wrote:

Can't say everyone is clean or dirty but we can say most runners who are world class are dirty.

Most don't cheat. People are terrible at keeping secrets.

Ten sentences and I think you got one right. Maybe two.

Whites are devils I agree, but blacks are DOPERS

dutiest wrote:

In 2007, she ran 2:29.

Four years later her pr dropped to 2:28.

Two years on, in 2013, she ran 2:20.

She ran pr's of 10k, 15k, 20k, and half marathon in Dubai this year (1:06ish).

Olympic marathon champ in Rio after 4th in Beijing in 2015.

Her agent? Wait for the big surprise and shock: Federico Rosa.

https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/kenya/jemima-jelagat-sumgong-224362http://whtc.com/news/articles/2017/apr/06/rio-olympic-marathon-champion-sumgong-fails-drugs-test-iaaf/

Holy what?

Somebody needs to list Federico Rosa's athletes.

I wondered how long it would take Rojo to start switching the topic to Rupp and Salazar. It looks 2 posts and about15 minutes !

No-one talks about the Jamaica 2008 olympic bust today. Did the IAAF just threw Sumgong under the bus to save Bolt's legacy?

Sad. Ruined the upcoming season for me and I don't know if I'll bother watching anymore. A lifetime ban is what she deserves. I hope she at least rats out the real perpetrators because both Jemima and Rita aren't smart enough to do this by themselves. Hopefully this time we'll see real convictions, permit revocations and deportations.

Silver lining is that the OOC testing seems to be working. Shame about the greed and, again, casting a pall over Kenyan athletics.