I concur. As a self-professed Lydiard fanatic I would say that HIT is the best document out there on the market, amongst many.
I maintain that reading the Lydiard books is also good, because they give you a perspective. Training can be simplified for 99% of serious runners to what his training methods are and explained in his colloquial way. For those 99% of serious runners little modern science et al is needed.
And....where do you think Osler and Henderson got their basic ideas from?
Lydiard was inspired by others, but mostly developed the method via self experimentation. He is pretty much the only person to do that.
Of the hundreds of training methods I keep hearing about, they are either Lydiard, Lydiard pretending not to be Lydiard or crap.
When Lydiard went to Kenya and said, "I don't have anything new to tell you." do you think he was witnessing hundreds of people doing the same thing as he taught or Osler? Or Henderson? Or Maffetone?
They didn't quite exist yet.
Meanwhile a few hundreds Kenyans on any Sunday morning are producing a long run that maybe five Americans can handle.....
...17 Olympic gold medals, knighted in two countries, national head coach of five nations.....
I dunno....
rjm33 wrote:
. . .
I then looked on the internet for about 2 minutes and found out that Dr. Maffetone is a chiropractor. I do not find him impressive at all. He has no degrees in physiology (or nutrition)... so he is not like Jack Daniels (who has lived in Flagstaff... and I have talked with) or 2 time US Olympic marathoner Pete Pfitzinger (who has lived in New Zealand). I will continue to take advice from them…or Allan Lawrence (Aussie)…or Percy Cerutty (Aussie)…or Arthur Lydiard (New Zealand-Kiwi Superhero™).
. , ,
I picked up Allan Lawrence's 1984 Book "The Self Coached Runner" a couple of years ago at a used book store. The book has detailed training plans for 10K, 10 Mile and Marathon based on desired finishing time. Since I have not seen his name came mentioned a lot on this message board, he was the Olympic 10,000 Bronze medalist in 1956 and an NCAA XC Champ.
rjm and his little buddy fred urie are the two most annoying trolls on LRC currently. They constantly seek to threadjack, and cast aspersion on accomplished individuals, despite HAVING NO CREDENTIALS OF THEIR OWN WHATSOEVER. They literally have done NOTHING in the sport of running but to infest this site with their drivel. rjm has already been banned at least once, which should have been made permanent.
In addition to the athletes listed above, including Ed Whitlock, add Zach Bitter, AR holder in the 100 miles and WR for the 12 hour run, and numerous course records across the country, who is consulted by Maffetone. He was part of the landmark FASTER study by Jeff Volek and Stephen Phinney, which supports most of Phil's recommendations on diet and training. In this study, Zach was found to have the highest rate of fat burning ever recorded. He is essentially able to run 100 miles at under 7:00 per mile, burning almost exclusively fat, and taking in little carbohydrate.
Unfortunately you have to shake things up in order to keep progressing. Lydiard seems to stall most athletes at that 25 year old peak that they never improve on.
People should improve for at least another 10 years but most just fall into that endless plateau trap.
Zach Bitter has a MAF at or near 6:00/mile! This means that he has actually speeded up his daily runs. No doubt this is because of his unique ketoadaptation:
http://zachbitter.com/blog/2016/07/dialing-in-heart-rate.html
Imagine being able to produce a 2:40 marathon, day in, day out!
How many Olympic medalists from 1500m to marathon have done the Maffetone Chiropractor Method?
The answer is:
ZERO.
Care to share with us your experiences in the Olympics and which medals you or your athletes won? Well, you once saw a runner go by who ended up at the Olympics one day. Maybe you followed them and sniffed up the dirt where they took a pee? So, OK, maybe one of your world records, no matter how obscure? Oh, sorry about that. Big old goose egg.I checked on this thread because it was about a certain method I was interested in, and all you do is tell us who DOESN'T do the method.In other words, a completely obtuse irrelevant troll.
rjm33 wrote:
How many Olympic medalists from 1500m to marathon have done the Maffetone Chiropractor Method?
The answer is:
ZERO.
Let's start a thread on the "rjm/fred OLYMPIC CHAMPION METHOD". We are all waiting with bated breath to hear your profound wisdom and experience accomplishing absolutely
NOTHING.
Flaash wrote:
Zach Bitter has a MAF at or near 6:00/mile! This means that he has actually speeded up his daily runs. No doubt this is because of his unique ketoadaptation:
http://zachbitter.com/blog/2016/07/dialing-in-heart-rate.htmlImagine being able to produce a 2:40 marathon, day in, day out!
I imagine malmo could do this whenever he felt like it back in the day.
Flaash wrote:
Zach Bitter has a MAF at or near 6:00/mile! This means that he has actually speeded up his daily runs. No doubt this is because of his unique ketoadaptation:
http://zachbitter.com/blog/2016/07/dialing-in-heart-rate.htmlImagine being able to produce a 2:40 marathon, day in, day out!
Yep, a flash in the pan like you. That's all you got is some ultrajogging.
Maff the chiroexpert and flash the fathead.
Hey dork, you're on the wrong board. Take it to Joggers World.
rjm33 wrote:
How many Olympic medalists from 1500m to marathon have done the Maffetone Chiropractor Method?
The answer is:
ZERO.
Well that settles it then.
No need to go further wrote:
rjm33 wrote:How many Olympic medalists from 1500m to marathon have done the Maffetone Chiropractor Method?
The answer is:
ZERO.
Well that settles it then.
How many Olympic athletes are doing Dr. Quacketone training? ZERO.
It's for the joggers so they can rationalize being a slacker.
Can't wait to hear of all your great successes, mr. urea!!
fred wrote:
Flaash wrote:Zach Bitter has a MAF at or near 6:00/mile! This means that he has actually speeded up his daily runs. No doubt this is because of his unique ketoadaptation:
http://zachbitter.com/blog/2016/07/dialing-in-heart-rate.htmlImagine being able to produce a 2:40 marathon, day in, day out!
Yep, a flash in the pan like you. That's all you got is some ultrajogging.
Maff the chiroexpert and flash the fathead.
Hey dork, you're on the wrong board. Take it to Joggers World.
Flaash wrote:
I checked on this thread because it was about a certain method I was interested in, and all you do is tell us who DOESN'T do the method.
.
[/quote]
That's a lie. You're just a troll.
If you are interested in Maff then you're a stupid loser with zero talent.
Arthur Lydiard did develop an understanding of physiology. The Healthy Intelligent Training book also looked very good.
Bill Bowerman learned from Lydiard and started the "jogging for fitness" boom in the US along with Dr. Ken Cooper who wrote the Aerobics books.
Bowerman taught Bill Dellinger (The Competitive Runner's Training Book).
Bill Dellinger taught Albuterol Androgel Salbutamol Salazar.
…and then…some other things happened...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VA2kdrpBiJE/S81GRVY4CcI/AAAAAAAAAOU/ZAIdz6G2IrY/s1600/Salazar+and+rupp.jpg
...along with development of the new Nike Aerodynamic Speed Suitâ„¢ (Nike ASSâ„¢) with an extra baton for the US 4 X 100m relay team:
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/67/ce/df/67cedfab137bdbbc04abddac026685ae.jpg
It's expensive but worth it.
Frank Shorter did 80-90% of his training at 6:30-7:00 pace, a mere jog, and well below his MAF. Targeted track sessions to keep his speed, and voila! the most successful U.S. runner ever.
All this unfortunately was lost when Coe and Martin came around with their "Miracle 40-miles/week at VO2 max" BS, which set US/Euro running back for decades.
To get endurance, you must go longer. To go longer, you must first slow down.
Flaash wrote:
Frank Shorter did 80-90% of his training at 6:30-7:00 pace, a mere jog, and well below his MAF. Targeted track sessions to keep his speed, and voila! the most successful U.S. runner ever.
All this unfortunately was lost when Coe and Martin came around with their "Miracle 40-miles/week at VO2 max" BS, which set US/Euro running back for decades.
To get endurance, you must go longer. To go longer, you must first slow down.
Are you really going to bring my childhood hero Frank Shorter into your drivel?
You are completely wrong. I have the Frank Shorter autobiography right here. Do you know what the title of the book is?
The title of the book is:
OLYMPIC GOLD
That is just a coincidence.
Frank Shorter only ran that slow on easy morning runs or at altitude on easy days. Frank averaged about 120 miles a week for 7 years, including rest days. Frank usually ran at 6:00 minute pace on his distance runs at sea level. He did a 7 mile run on Saturdays at 5:00 minute mile pace or raced. He did hard interval workouts 2X per week year round. He sometimes did his Sunday 20 miler with the first 10 miles at 5:40 pace and the last 10 miles at under 5:00 pace.
Does that look like the chiropractor Phil Maffetone Method?
No. It does not look like Phil's method.
Take that troll pup.
Frank Shorter did up to 150 miles a week with 2 speed and a long run of 20 miles or 2 hours whatever came first.
You are full of crap. You have never been over 140 miles a week. You don't know what it feels like to do 140 miles with speedwork and go out the next day.
You are merely a troll with no real world experience just spouting crap. First it was about some fat burning ultraguy.
How do you know what Shorter experienced. You don't know anything about him. Did you train with him in 76.
Come on rjm33, don't be disingenuous. We all know Viren adopted Maffetone and that produced his 4 Olympic golds.
