french fried fries wrote:
letsdrum wrote:
Yeah, who don't know Overt, Hutchins and Antipol.
The Italians were not booed in every race, they were not booed at all.
Were you there like lmb, or just talking out of your @ss because you don’t want it to be true?
I was there, but booing or no booing depends not on my presence.
No athlete was booed in Stuttgart 86.
Questioning the career trajectory of a former WR holder, Commonwealth Games Gold medalist, and Olympic Games Gold medalist?
Coevett wrote:
hewillnotdothis wrote:
He will never stop with all of his lies.
Are you ashamed to post as Spade Detector now?
He was the first Kenyan to be suspended, first of over 100. Imagine if Ovett had refused to give a urine sample and was banned for four years as a consequence. If somebody pointed it out here, I wouldn't then call them a liar, even under a fake name. That's because I'm not a paid doping apologist troll like Spade Detector/Obsevski.
https://allafrica.com/stories/200309080597.html
Yeah Covett and I don't see eye to eye on everything but he is right here. This has been mentioned before on the boards (Ngugi's ban and mysterious involvement in the whole PED topic) - I don't know why it is such a surprise.
Well then again I do know - mostly because Americans like to open their mouths first and call you out just for the sake out it, rather than bothering to get their facts right.
Ngugi ended up serving 2 years of the 4 before being reinstated (didn't matter because he was cooked by this time anyways) and got reinstated on the grounds that he didn't know what was happening and that the tester John Whetton (Euro 1500m champ ) didn't identify himself correctly and that he spoke poor english. Many inside the sport didn't really buy this as Ngugi was one of the better English speakers and had run internationally and been tested many times before.
He was absolutely the first high profile Kenyan to serve a ban and yes, it was in a time when it was almost impossible for an East African to get dusted.
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
He was absolutely the first high profile Kenyan to serve a ban and yes, it was in a time when it was almost impossible for an East African to get dusted.
To be fair it was a time when it was almost impossible for anyone to get caught.
To be fair to Coe, at least, with regard to the rumors of blood doping and the disease that healthy adult men usually do not get except through blood bags, he nonetheless was still good enough not only after the illness receded in 1984, AND after blood doping had become illegal after the Eddy B. scandal in bike racing at the '84 Olympics, to get the Olympic record in 1984, together with silver in the 800m, and a 3:29.77 pr in 1986, five years after his peak. (Multiple solid pacers, a bit too fast, though, 1:51/2:34 at 1100m, last lap in 55).
Ovett was never the same after a bad leg injury after running into railings in 82.
Even though he still had a good kick it was not the same devastating finish plus he started getting more injuries afterwards.
Even though he set a WR in 83 he got out sprinted later by Cram which would never have happened previously.
LA and running through illness really finished him off from running in the heat ie most championship final. His top level career started a few years before Coe.
http://en.people.cn/90779/8300863.htmlgfhbg wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Ngugi who was suspended by anti-doping when it was almost impossible for an East African to get caught.
How many years until you stop posting this lie?
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Ovett was never the same after a bad leg injury after running into railings in 82.
Even though he still had a good kick it was not the same devastating finish plus he started getting more injuries afterwards.
Even though he set a WR in 83 he got out sprinted later by Cram which would never have happened previously.
LA and running through illness really finished him off from running in the heat ie most championship final. His top level career started a few years before Coe.
Yes, his acceleration was never the same, nor was his tactical sense. Prior to the accident he was always in the right position, just off the leader, but that was often not true after -- e.g., the 1983 WC. I think he just no longer had that supreme confidence that he could handle any move.
He ran into church railings
+
He matured early and thus aged early (see also: Webb)
James Vergon Estradasphere wrote:
He ran into church railings
+
He matured early and thus aged early (see also: Webb)
Comparing an Olympic champion and multiple world record holder with someone who never came close to winning a world medal is ridiculous. Outside that fast mile he did nothing and spent far fewer years at his own peak.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
James Vergon Estradasphere wrote:
He ran into church railings
+
He matured early and thus aged early (see also: Webb)
Comparing an Olympic champion and multiple world record holder with someone who never came close to winning a world medal is ridiculous. Outside that fast mile he did nothing and spent far fewer years at his own peak.
All that, and he peaked early.
Ovett won a Euro Silver in 1974, and a Commonwealth gold in 1986. In between he won Olympic medals, set world records etc etc. That's a solid 12 years at the top level with some comebacks from illness and injury. People also forget that Ovett finished 4th in the British Olympic trials for 1500m in 1988 at the age of 33 (well past retirement age for most elite runners in those days) just missing out on that 3rd spot for the British Olympic team (Coe was knocked out in the heats in the same meet). Who else had a longer career at the top than Ovett in his era? Walker? If anything Ovett had a very long career at the top compared with his peers ….
Regardless of why he declined, I still enjoyed his "Decathlon is nine Mickey Mouse events & a slow 1500" quote.
zxczxcv wrote:
To be fair to Coe, at least, with regard to the rumors of blood doping and the disease that healthy adult men usually do not get except through blood bags, he nonetheless was still good enough not only after the illness receded in 1984, AND after blood doping had become illegal after the Eddy B. scandal in bike racing at the '84 Olympics, to get the Olympic record in 1984, together with silver in the 800m, and a 3:29.77 pr in 1986, five years after his peak. (Multiple solid pacers, a bit too fast, though, 1:51/2:34 at 1100m, last lap in 55).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsHwft0p99g
There are very few accounts of people getting toxoplasmosis via blood transfusions and none through blood doping. It is a very common disease around the world and the vast majority catch it through eating contaminated or undercooked meat. It isn’t a serious condition for most normal people but would cause enough of a drop in performance of someone training at the sort of intensity an Olympic athlete would. Linking toxoplasmosis to blood doping is a very tenuous connection.
Coe’s 3:29 in 86 certainly did not benefit from ‘solid pacers’. The rabbit went through first 400m in 53.0, while Coe’s first 800m went 54.0, 58.0 (1:52.0). He also had no drafting on the 2nd lap.
adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
He was absolutely the first high profile Kenyan to serve a ban and yes, it was in a time when it was almost impossible for an East African to get dusted.
To be fair it was a time when it was almost impossible for anyone to get caught.
and I don't disagree with that either!
if you watched "Supermilers" documentary (shot in late '83 if I'm right) it's apparent that something's wrong with Ovett. Coe is only one year younger than him, but in the movie, Ovett looks at least 10-15 years older than Seb. Bad teeth, bags under his eyes (which suggest some intestinal problems) and overall look. He went 15 years older in the space of just two or three years. I don't know if he was drinking or smoking, but his food regime is suspicious.
Ovett from 1977 to 1981 was one of the best ever middle distance runners, but after that just an also-run. Yap, he had some fine performances after that (WR in '83, string of 5-6 good races in '86), but it was not Steve Ovett we knew.
In '84 he still had good speed (as his 1:44.81 in L.A. semis was his second fastest ever 800m time), but he was perhaps too greedy and it would be smarter from him to skip 800m and 4 brutal rounds and concentrate on 1500m solely. He would not beat Coe, perhaps not even Cram, but bronze would be great. In the end, as one of the greatest milers in history, he has only one bronze from 4 global outings over 1500m. Pity.
Altered Image wrote:
zxczxcv wrote:
To be fair to Coe, at least, with regard to the rumors of blood doping and the disease that healthy adult men usually do not get except through blood bags, he nonetheless was still good enough not only after the illness receded in 1984, AND after blood doping had become illegal
There are very few accounts of people getting toxoplasmosis via blood transfusions and none through blood doping. It is a very common disease around the world and the vast majority catch it through eating contaminated or undercooked meat. It isn’t a serious condition for most normal people but would cause enough of a drop in performance of someone training at the sort of intensity an Olympic athlete would. Linking toxoplasmosis to blood doping is a very tenuous connection.
Coe’s 3:29 in 86 certainly did not benefit from ‘solid pacers’. The rabbit went through first 400m in 53.0, while Coe’s first 800m went 54.0, 58.0 (1:52.0). He also had no drafting on the 2nd lap.
zxczxcv is just upset that his hero Big Mac's 'clean' reputation has been tarnished by syringes and products to wash out EPO being found in his locker.
Souly wrote:
if you watched "Supermilers" documentary (shot in late '83 if I'm right) it's apparent that something's wrong with Ovett. Coe is only one year younger than him, but in the movie, Ovett looks at least 10-15 years older than Seb. Bad teeth, bags under his eyes (which suggest some intestinal problems) and overall look. He went 15 years older in the space of just two or three years. I don't know if he was drinking or smoking, but his food regime is suspicious.
Ovett from 1977 to 1981 was one of the best ever middle distance runners, but after that just an also-run. Yap, he had some fine performances after that (WR in '83, string of 5-6 good races in '86), but it was not Steve Ovett we knew.
In '84 he still had good speed (as his 1:44.81 in L.A. semis was his second fastest ever 800m time), but he was perhaps too greedy and it would be smarter from him to skip 800m and 4 brutal rounds and concentrate on 1500m solely. He would not beat Coe, perhaps not even Cram, but bronze would be great. In the end, as one of the greatest milers in history, he has only one bronze from 4 global outings over 1500m. Pity.
Well Ovett did put on weight quickly it seems when he retired, so maybe he never did have the best diet.
It's interesting your comment about 'bags under the eye's and such in 83, because I've read that he suffered skin rashes all the way through 84, and then of course the respiratory problems in LA. Sounds like he might have developed an allergy problem or an overactive immune system.
Yes, it's a pity he only won one bronze medal at 1500m, although he did have two World Cup wins and the European Championships in 78.
Aouita only ended up with one 1500m bronze medal too, although it was more a case of ducking a challenge for him, rather than injury or ill-health, the exact opposite of Ovett in 1984.
Probably the same reason I am going from above average hobby jogger fitness to swollen knees after less than 15 miles in 3 days.
Age 30, 31, no problems, but not many runs over 30 minutes. Age 32, started having runners knee, had to take several months off. Age 33, no problems, just though an above average hobby jogger who can run somewhere in the mid/low 5's for a mile. Age 34, plantar fasciitis forces me to take a few months off.
I turn 36 in a few weeks. My knees as I said feel not very good. They are swollen and that's from less than 15 miles in the last week and a few weeks at 25-30 prior to this.
My knees, I can't believe it.
I have a moderate metabolism. I am not kenyan skinny. I have a build similar to prefontaine, maybe a little bit more. I might have gained 5lbs in the last 6months. I weighed 171 at the dr. a few months ago. I am 5'10. In high school I competed in the mid/low 150's.
I like food, have a hard time fasting (thoug I often do for 16 hours).
Genetically, my father carries more than he should, though he still excercises. My mother carries a bit but she is relatively light in comparison to my father.
My genetics allow me to run a mile under 5 minutes in my prime and in the mid 5's at 34. I suppose I still could run even sub 5 if I was completely determined, but, I now am pissed because I am experiencing the beginning of old man like problems. And I"m still a few weeks from 36!