Amusing & infuriating Runners World quote a friend just sent me

Withering sarcasm noted. But have you *been* to a party? I'm Relentless Unpopular Opinion Guy. That guy IS the life of the party.You sound like Surly Arrogant guy, the one not enjoying himself, whose girlfriend says 'What's wrong?' and he scowls and says 'Nothing.' Then the whole drive home he can't shut up about 'God, that guy was SUCH an a-hole. Wasn't he an a-hole?' while his gf rolls her eyes and wonders why she hasn't broken up with him yet, and starts Tindering.Or maybe you're just boring.

get over it wrote:

I bet you're the life of the party.

Can't speak for everyone, but my last 5K (as of last Saturday) was 26'05. When I have pipe dreams they're of 22'.Glad you brought up golf. Say I go play 18 and I shoot 100. Some people will think that's amazing cause they shoot 120. Some people will assume my score means I'm not a serious a golfer, and they'd be correct. But mostly no one will much care one way or the other that I just shot a round of golf, because it's just golf. Why can't running just be golf?

When I was running 17 minute 5K's I thought anyone who couldn't break 18 minutes was slow.

Now that I'm running 25 minute 5K's I think anyone who can't break 26 minutes is slow.

Et tu, old guy 70???I'm probably the same way though. Just human nature I suppose. I wouldn't really expect a pro golfer to think 80 or 75 is a terrific score. As long as they're polite about it.Serious question though, about your 17 minute 5Ks. As you got down to 20-19-18-17, did it feel better and better and better and better and better? Or did it still feel slow because there was always someone faster. Or is that not even how it all went down.

old guy 70 wrote:

When I was running 17 minute 5K's I thought anyone who couldn't break 18 minutes was slow.

Now that I'm running 25 minute 5K's I think anyone who can't break 26 minutes is slow.

these guys ... wrote:

You sound like Surly Arrogant guy, the one not enjoying himself, whose girlfriend says 'What's wrong?' and he scowls and says 'Nothing.' Then the whole drive home he can't shut up about 'God, that guy was SUCH an a-hole. Wasn't he an a-hole?' while his gf rolls her eyes and wonders why she hasn't broken up with him yet, and starts Tindering.

Or maybe you're just boring.

get over it wrote:

I bet you're the life of the party.

It sounds as though you have a lot of experience with that. lol

Maybe a little.

*The* Guy wrote:

It sounds as though you have a lot of experience with that. lol

Coebra wrote:

Once again, you miss the entire point. The birth of distance was not bowerman saying, "let there be shoes!" And a million marathoners appearing; running has been around forever. Billy Mills, Ron Clarke, Bob Schul, Jim Beatty, fvcking Zatopek, chadaway, Buddy Edelen, Bannister, landy, Snell, should I go on? All before your precious "hobby joggers support running" era.

The point being, to spell it out, is that track and field and road racing DID exist before the shoe era and was probably a better sport then, compared to how. Probably cleaner too.

You're right. It did exist before we came along. However, it's time you embrace the new boss running the show.

these guys ... wrote:

The way everything else works, is we give credit for hard work, or talent, or luck. We do not give credit for showing up semi-prepared on game day and struggling. Why should running work differently than every other thing?

Actually, there are a lot of things that do not work this way. People who recover from alcoholism or drug addiction get more praise than those who have been sober all along. Kids who overcome behavioral problems and manage to graduate from high schools are praised more than kids who never got into major troubles. We see many stories of formerly obese people who have lost mega pounds, but where are the stories of people who have stayed fit and healthy with good diet and exercise?

Jennifer Capriati got burned out, almost quit tennis, and caught smoking marijuana. She later came back to win three major titles. Lindsay Davenport always worked hard, conducted herself admirably on and off the court, and also won three major titles. Guess which player got more praise?

That's how life works. Running is not any different.

Yes, there are a small number of things that work this way. They tend to involve children overcoming behavioral problems, adults overcoming terminal illness, devastating addictions, or destructive lifestyles. And so forth. How casual running ended up getting this same treatment I'll never know.Most things ... plumbing, architecture, classical guitar, birdwatching ... do not. Let's just put casual running in here with everything else, where it belongs, and move on.You know I've actually thought the same thing about Capriati and Davenport. Lindsay Davenport was an excellent player who happened to be not that interesting. I don't know that we'd really remember Steffi Graf either, if she hadn't been the GOAT. Even so I'll bet just as many people remember Seles. Hard to compete with a stabbing though.

Just Another LRC Idiot wrote:

Actually, there are a lot of things that do not work this way. People who recover from alcoholism or drug addiction get more praise than those who have been sober all along. Kids who overcome behavioral problems and manage to graduate from high schools are praised more than kids who never got into major troubles. We see many stories of formerly obese people who have lost mega pounds, but where are the stories of people who have stayed fit and healthy with good diet and exercise?

Jennifer Capriati got burned out, almost quit tennis, and caught smoking marijuana. She later came back to win three major titles. Lindsay Davenport always worked hard, conducted herself admirably on and off the court, and also won three major titles. Guess which player got more praise?

That's how life works. Running is not any different.

these guys ...wrote:

Et tu, old guy 70???

Serious question though, about your 17 minute 5Ks. As you got down to 20-19-18-17, did it feel better and better and better and better and better? Or did

it still feel slow because there was always someone faster. Or is that not even how it all went down.

______________________________________________________________

I didn't start running until I was 30 years old.

Not being naturally talented my first goal was to break 20 minutes. I began doing a lot of speed work and after a few years eventually got down to 17:37.

In the late 70's that time was usually good enough to finish in the top 10%-15% of the field. Most of the races had 300 to 800 runners. (no joggers) A 36:30 10K would also be the top 10%-15%. Not fast enough to medal in my age group.

A 19:45 5K felt the same as a 17:37 a year later. A 24:56 today feels exactly like those races did then. I'm one of those idiots that finish the race dry heaving. Have always been able to run an even pace however.

There was always a lot of guys (& women) faster than me. If I was running those times today I would probably be one of the top ten finishers.

Most of the courses were certified in the San Francisco area back then.

Today some of the races don't even have mile markers and when they do they're usually inaccurate.

Any Which Way But Loose wrote:

Hobby Joggers pay for everything.

Without them there would be no 5K's, 10K's, 1/2's, Marathons.

There would be 18 really skinny guys running down the road dodging traffic.

Not sure if this is the case. I have nothing against "hobby joggers". I'm sure there are runners who could consider me one. But I think the HJ boom has had a huge effect on the prices of races. $100+ for a half and upwards of $300 for a full seems ridiculous to me. Good old supply and demand. If HJs are willing to pay that much to get a fancy medal, then I have to too.

have you thought about this wrote:

Yes, there are a small number of things that work this way. They tend to involve children overcoming behavioral problems, adults overcoming terminal illness, devastating addictions, or destructive lifestyles. And so forth. How casual running ended up getting this same treatment I'll never know.

Most things ... plumbing, architecture, classical guitar, birdwatching ... do not. Let's just put casual running in here with everything else, where it belongs, and move on.

Umm.. isn't it rather obvious why casual running is in the first category rather than the second? Plumbing, architecture, classical guitar and birdwatching are usually not associated with "overcoming destructive lifestyles." Casual running is often seen as a way of overcoming obesity and other health problems. People don't start birdwatching in order to lose weight or reduce heart disease risk.

I actually have an old entry form for the '79 San Francisco Marathon sponsored by PAMAKID RUNNERS and Converse. PAMAKIDS was a SF running club ...Pa, Ma and the Kids.

Awards * All entrants will receive T-Shirts

* Each of the following finishers will receive a pair of Converse shoes:

Open men 18-29 1st-20th ; women 18-39 1st-10th

Sub master 30-39 1st-15th; master women 40-49 1st-5th

Master men 40-49 1st-10th; 50/over women 1st place

50/over men 1st-3rd; 17/under girls 1st & 2nd

17/under boys 1st-5th

* The women will receive running tops & shorts from Moving Comfort

* Random prizes to entrants

* Trophies & medals to top age-group finishers

ENTRY FEE: $5 before June 23; $7 late entry

These were the days before hobby joggers

old guy 70 wrote:

I actually have an old entry form for the '79 San Francisco Marathon sponsored by PAMAKID RUNNERS and Converse. PAMAKIDS was a SF running club ...Pa, Ma and the Kids.

Awards * All entrants will receive T-Shirts

* Each of the following finishers will receive a pair of Converse shoes:

Open men 18-29 1st-20th ; women 18-39 1st-10th

Sub master 30-39 1st-15th; master women 40-49 1st-5th

Master men 40-49 1st-10th; 50/over women 1st place

50/over men 1st-3rd; 17/under girls 1st & 2nd

17/under boys 1st-5th

* The women will receive running tops & shorts from Moving Comfort

* Random prizes to entrants

* Trophies & medals to top age-group finishers

ENTRY FEE: $5 before June 23; $7 late entry

These were the days before hobby joggers

But what about the finisher medals, the long sleeved tech fabric shirts, the live bands every mile, the Gu's and Gatorade, the costume contest, the post-race food, the pre-race expo, the personalized race bibs, the athlete tracker app, the early start for walkers????

Ahhh, the good old days. I do note women's awards did not go as deep as the men's, but I'm sure that was relative to number of entrants. These days it's generally equal participation. Back then, less women ran. In 1979, the marathon wasn't even an Olympic sport for women yet. The ladies did get the extra shorts and singlet bonus, though!

Ummmm (you started it) ... except none of that is true? The average casual runner at a running event isn't someone overcoming obesity, Type 2 diabetes, or polio. It's just some guy or gal out for a bit of fun. I agree with you that we do in fact treat every casual runner as if they were Wilma Rudolph. In fact that's more or less my point.As a lighthearted aside, you're dead wrong about birdwatchers. You got me thinking, and I realized I know 3 birdwatchers. 100% of them got into it, not because they cared at all about birds, but because they wanted to lose weight. "I was 55 years old, 100 lbs overweight, and my doctor said I had about 10 years left if I didn't do something", one of them said, and they hated running and the gym (hence the +100) and birdwatching is what did it for him. I don't think the other 2 were as dramatic, but they too got into it strictly to be more active. Birdwatchers: The REAL Heroes.

Just Another LRC Idiot wrote:

Umm.. isn't it rather obvious why casual running is in the first category rather than the second? Plumbing, architecture, classical guitar and birdwatching are usually not associated with "overcoming destructive lifestyles." Casual running is often seen as a way of overcoming obesity and other health problems. People don't start birdwatching in order to lose weight or reduce heart disease risk.

I agree with all of this. Only thing that I will add:

Runners world and their ilk are frustrating because they effectively lie to people by saying the effort it took them to complete a distance of 5 kilometers is equivalent to the effort to run, say, sub 15 (as a general figure). They tell the hobby jogger, who is largely innocent in the matter, that their struggle is as honorable and noble as the struggle of the marathoner/ sub elite who works a part time job while doing some serious training in an attempt to take themselves to the absolute edge of their personal human capabilities.

Runners World gives the impression of saying that the tough mudder-er is as virtuous as the man or woman who works a sh!t job in order to train their hearts out, running a hundred goddamn miles a week, and barely existing in the world of serious running.

Runners World, and their ilk, give the Impression to people like Gladys (fvcking Gladys) that their mediocrity is in fact, admirable and should be celebrated with a parade and a matching band.

This used to bother me a lot. Now, I just don't give a sh!t. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't bother other people. Honestly, its so hypocritical that other posters rag on people that, "it shouldnt bother you man," when such a demeanor is only accomplished by a handful of lucky people. Whoever here that isn't affected by what society thinks and says of them can cast the first stone.

But then again, its "cool" to be a troll/@sshole, so never mind.

This post is brought to you by "Blue Moon".

Cancel your subscription to Runner's World immediately. Clearly, its editorial content agitates you. That's not good.

This is I what I would have said, if I were better at writing words.I know this is completely over the top ... but what RW does is what a cult does. They catch people, when they are highly impressionable, and they tell them exactly how to think. And it's full of uncritical positive emotion, which of course is designed to get people hooked on that source of uncritical positive emotion.(Damn they're good!)And that would be ok! But they deprive people of the truer deeper joys of running. Which come from trying hard, and failing a lot, and getting upset.Not 100mpw. Just trying hard.This post brought to you by Karbach 3-Legged Lab Imperial Stout. And Weller Reserve.

This is an awesome post. It almost makes this thread worth it.I might make T-Shirts with "Not being naturally talented my first goal was to break 20 minutes." I feel like every runner I know, is 25-35 and thinks a 23' 5K is a pipe dream. Cause they are all locked in to 25mpw marathon training programs, that make them slow at every distance. They have no idea what's possible.I on the other hand am ignoring all that, and as a 25'xx 5K guy want to start training to break 22. I've been afraid that once I do I'll just shrug. But you've made me feel like the fight is, in fact, the reward.Thanks OG!