The official HEPS track and field thread, 2015-2016

What I *haven't* found out yet: who the MVPs for the Heps meet were.

...Or did they not declare any?

BRF wrote:

What I *haven't* found out yet: who the MVPs for the Heps meet were.

...Or did they not declare any?

They did.

Track - Carrington Akosa (male) and Autumne Franklin (female)

Field - Allison Harris (female) and Corey Muggler (male)

What has happened to Yale?

Gunny wrote:

What has happened to Yale?

I've been told (a few years ago, now) that Yale made a decision (at the very top) to seriously limit the number/marginality of "athletic admits."

If that's true, then it may be significantly harder for the Yale coaches to bring in top talent in quantity, particularly in some event areas. Whether that's actually how it's played out, I don't know.

Predictions on the places of the three Heps milers at NCAAs? (Awad, Gowans, Napolitano)

NORTHEAST – Rudy Winkler, Cornell

Winkler, a sophomore from Sand Lake, New York, won The Heps title in the weight throw with a heave of 22.82m (74-10 ½). That throw also set a school record and is second all-time in the Ivy League. Winkler will contest the weight throw at the upcoming NCAA meet as the third seed.

BRF wrote:

I've been told (a few years ago, now) that Yale made a decision (at the very top) to seriously limit the number/marginality of "athletic admits."

If that's true, then it may be significantly harder for the Yale coaches to bring in top talent in quantity, particularly in some event areas. Whether that's actually how it's played out, I don't know.

This is true.

Fewer spots and higher standards. Harvard and Princeton regularly get athletes that Yale can't touch.

Geoghegan's Ghost wrote:

Predictions on the places of the three Heps milers at NCAAs? (Awad, Gowans, Napolitano)

The prelims will be two heats - Awad in heat 1, Gowans and Napolitano in heat 2. Top 4 and next 2 fastest to finals.

Heat Lane Bib Athlete Affiliation SB NCAA Rank

1 1 605 Henry Wynne JR Virginia

1 2 416 Thomas Awad SR Penn

1 3 587 Jonah Koech FR UTEP

1 4 413 Sam Prakel JR Oregon

1 5 488 Joel Hubbard JR Syracuse

1 6 87 Anass Zouhry SR Cal St. Northridge

1 7 431 Julian Oakley SR Providence

1 8 81 David Elliott SR Boise State

Heat Lane Bib Athlete Affiliation SB NCAA Rank

2 1 490 Adam Palamar JR Syracuse

2 2 115 James Gowans JR Cornell

2 3 114 Rob Napolitano JR Columbia

2 4 366 Jacob Burcham JR Oklahoma

2 5 584 Dillon Maggard SO Utah State

2 6 164 Cole Williams SR Georgetown

2 7 408 Blake Haney SO Oregon

2 8 159 Amos Bartelsmeyer JR Georgetown

I think Awad will get an auto from heat 1. I also think heat 2 will be faster than heat 1, so the fastest non-autos should come from that heat. One of the two Ivies should get in, but not sure if as an auto or based on time. I think the odds are low of all three making it to the finals, but there is still a chance.

I feel Awad can make top 3, with secret hopes of him winning it. Gowans and Napolitano are even in my mind so I cannot really say who will edge who. I know Gowans beat Napolitano in the mile earlier this year when they went head to head, but Gowan's sub-par showing in the Heps 800m and Napolitano's Heps tactical mile win made it more even since I don't think the mile final will be a speedfest but more tactical. Sorry I cannot provide any more than that.

Onto outdoors! Four teams have started their outdoor season so far.

And guess what, we already have 2 new conference records.

I'm surprised the Brojos haven't gotten around to posting anything about this on their front page yet, but Penn's Sam Mattis not only shattered the Ivy discus throw record, but he threw the #4 and #5 best distances in NCAA history on Saturday, qualifying for the Olympics in the process - 221-03. According to Penn's research, only two non-Americans have ever thrown better than him in NCAA history, making Mattis' mark the American Collegiate Record. It's also the #1 mark in the world right now.

Secondly, the Harvard women's 4x1 reset the conference record down in Texas at the TCU Invite - 44.85.

Other new top-10 marks include Allison Harris in the PV (13-01 1/2 - #5), Adam Kelly in the HT (209-10 - #10), Ngozi Musa in the 100m (11.66 - #3), and Nikki Okwelogu in the DT (177-10 - #2). Gabrielle Thomas ran the fastest wind-aided 100m in conference history (11.39).

Sam made the FP! There's a nice Q&A with Daily Relay on him now too:

http://dailyrelay.com/five-questions-with-penns-sam-mattis/

Apparently he mismeasured the field in training by 3-4 meters so he thought he was throwing 62-63s when he was in fact throwing 67s. Weird stuff, but looking very good if he can stay consistent.

I was at that meet but unfortunately I made the mistake of showing up *after* the throwing events :-(

habs wrote:

Apparently he mismeasured the field in training by 3-4 meters so he thought he was throwing 62-63s when he was in fact throwing 67s. Weird stuff, but looking very good if he can stay consistent.

I was at that meet but unfortunately I made the mistake of showing up *after* the throwing events :-(

So i read the article and it says Mattis didn't think his throws were anything special as he has allegedly mismeasured the throwing circle to a huge degree??? 3-4 meters. That's more than 10 feet!!!

Is there any chance he actually measured it right but the official got it wrong? Why do I saw that? Well look at how much everyone PRd by.

It was supposedly snowing at the meet and there wasn't supposedly one of those great headwinds that throwers like. Despite all of that, the following PRs were set.

Thrower - Previous PR / PR at Penn Meet

1. Sam Mattis 62.48m 67.45m 4.97

2. Didn't PR

3.McGriff, David Lafayette 51.5m 54.71m  3.21

4.Cioffi, Will ` 49.13 49.38m  0.25

5. No discus PBs listed.

6. 6.Kaplan, SamJR- 36.35m 45.23m  8.88

7.Lassiter , Ellery 39.76 42.42m  2.68

8. Freshman so no PBs.

9. Freshman so no PBs.

10. Freshman so no PBs.

So of the top 7 throwers. 6 had thrown before.

So of the top 6 throwers with PBs, 5 of them set PBs and 4 of them set PB of at least 2.68 meters or more than 8.75 feet.

So it's snowing out and a guy moves to #3 all-time in the NCAA in the discus, with a mark that would have medalled at Worlds and we are supposed to believe something fishy wasn't up?

Either with the conditions (wind is huge in the discus) or measurement.

I WANT to believe these marks are legitimate and repeatable but will believe them when one of the top 7 guys repeats the marks.

I'm not saying they cheated or anything. But when 83% of the throwers PR by more than 8 feet you know ti's do to the condition or measuring.

Peace out.

PS. What's the standard HS to college conversion. We could use that to figure out the freshmen but I think we should just wait a week or two when we realize something was up at this meet.

afraid to state my name wrote:

It was supposedly snowing at the meet and there wasn't supposedly one of those great headwinds that throwers like. Despite all of that, the following PRs were set.

No snow in Philadelphia on Saturday but minor rain (0.01 in). High of mid 40s. Wind mostly to the N at 6mph.

Interesting quote from Mattis, to the effect that Penn might be going for the Heps title outdoors. Been quite a while since we've had a men's champ other than Princeton or Cornell.

Could this mean triples from Mattis and Awad?

afraid to state my name wrote:

So it's snowing out and a guy moves to #3 all-time in the NCAA in the discus, with a mark that would have medalled at Worlds and we are supposed to believe something fishy wasn't up?

Either with the conditions (wind is huge in the discus) or measurement.

I WANT to believe these marks are legitimate and repeatable but will believe them when one of the top 7 guys repeats the marks.

I'm not saying they cheated or anything. But when 83% of the throwers PR by more than 8 feet you know ti's do to the condition or measuring.

Great catch, ATSMN!

For Mattis to have a breakthrough throw: not a shocker. His talent is through the roof.

For (almost) EVERYONE to have a breakthrough throw: frankly fishy, particularly when multiple accounts have said there was no wind (or at least not a helpful one).

Having coached, officiated, and spectated at a few (hundred) track meets, I'd say the most likely error--IF THERE WAS ONE--would have been a systematic screwup in the measuring. I've seen some doozies.

Ivyguy wrote:

Interesting quote from Mattis, to the effect that Penn might be going for the Heps title outdoors. Been quite a while since we've had a men's champ other than Princeton or Cornell.

Could this mean triples from Mattis and Awad?

Penn last won oHeps in 2002.

I think Mattis will triple in the throws - he essentially said as such in that interview with Daily Relay. He scored in the shot put last year at Outdoor Heps but not sure if he did the hammer as well since HTC only lists the top 6 and not all competitors. Given how he scored in both the SP and WT at Indoor Heps, I think he will be able to score in the outdoor equivalents as well but we'll see how his HT goes this season.

As for Awad... we'll see. He's aiming for the Olympic Trials 5k and I've heard him in an interview say how it has takes him awhile to recover after hitting fast qualifying times. I think Dolan will have to use him in the best way possible that can help out Awad's goals vs the team goals.

I'm curious on how the rest of the rest of the team will step it up this outdoor season - they have some good steeplers and field eventers in the last few years and I think their rookie sprinter Calvary Rogers can give the team some much needed points in the shorter items (he got outleaned for the iHeps 200m title by Akosa, and on facebook, Rogers shared how it haunts him). Hopefully this weekend's Penn Challenge will showcase a few more of them so we can see what is going on.

Ok. I'm following the league as the season goes on in case I do the tv broadcast on the Ivy network as I don't want to have cram a season's worth of knowledge into my brain in the span of 4 days.

Yes. Penn stopped winning once Nathan Taylor went to Cornell.

Anyway, Mattis tripled last year. He's just not nearly as good at the other events. He got 6th in the shot and didn't score in the weight. Now he was third in the shot indoors.

Penn's going to have a tough time winning outdoors. I guess few thought Princeton would indoors and they did but look at the scores indoors.

1 Princeton 165

2 Cornell 142

3 Dartmouth 80

4 Penn 75

5 Harvard 46

6 Brown 42

7 Yale 38

8 Columbia 32

Princeton more than doubled Penn which is what they nearly did outdoors last year.

1 Princeton 163

2 Cornell 159.5

3 Penn 89

Penn may be better outdoors but in 2015 things didn't narrow too much. They lost indoors by 86. They lost outdoors by 74. But it sure would be exciting if they were in the mix.

To be honest, I think Awad would remember helping Penn win a team title than a lot more than the Olympic Trials 5k. If they were going to win, they could triple him - 1500-10k-5k and he'd have a shot at 30 points it's a tough thing for a coach. You don't do something like that unless you think you've got a really good shot.

ladedah wrote:

afraid to state my name wrote:

It was supposedly snowing at the meet and there wasn't supposedly one of those great headwinds that throwers like. Despite all of that, the following PRs were set.

No snow in Philadelphia on Saturday but minor rain (0.01 in). High of mid 40s. Wind mostly to the N at 6mph.

https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KPNE/2016/3/19/DailyHistory.htmlhttp://www.accuweather.com/en/us/philadelphia-pa/19107/march-weather/350540?monyr=3/1/2016&view=table

I was at the track (right next to where they do throws), there was some snow for a period during the steeplechase, but it was only for a few minutes. It was also pretty windy which might have helped, and there's a video of the the throw here and it doesn't look like the snow affected it:

As for the theories about mismeasurement, it's an interesting scenario to think about, but as much as my inner Letsrun conspiracist would like to believe it I really don't think there was some systematic screwup here.

You also have to remember, this is the first time most of these guys are throwing the disc in almost a year. A lot of PRs are to be expected in a season-opener after a year of training. Also, this wouldn't be the first shocker from Mattis; unfortunately he was pretty inconsistent most of last year as well, though he did come up clutch when it matters most (minus USAs).

Also, obviously I'm psyched at even the possibility of Penn taking a swing at the team title for oHeps. They've got quite a few distance prospects that will probably score, and -- potentially -- 60 points alone from Sam (SP HT D) and Tommy (1500 5K 10K), though that might be asking a lot of Sam. Everything would need to go right but having two studs with range on top of their games would help.

Also, I think this year the focus has been a lot more on outdoors; before iHeps Dolan said in an interview how that entire season was really just a setup for Penn. Add in the freshman sprinting talents (Cav) if they improve and then we have what looks like a pretty complete team.

it was a matter of time before Sam threw that far. he threw 230 in High School for Christ-sake. Shame on you.

shazzuy wrote:

it was a matter of time before Sam threw that far. he threw 230 in High School for Christ-sake. Shame on you.

Welcome back, shazz! Long time no hear!