Female Coach gives a man her bib at RNR Philly and he wins AG in her name

Typical runner or sockpuppet wrote:We're not talking about a 21 year old male, but a 45 year old woman. If you place in your age group in a race with many thousands of participants than that's a great accomplishment. Why is that so hard to figure out?

More races should allow transfers. That would cut out any confusion. I'm sure the change can be made with about 10 key strokes.

With the way races are now, you have to register many months in advance. Allowing people to sell their bib or give it to a friend would eliminate any fraud. I know I hate to register 6 mo out then have to watch that spot go unused if I'm injured or "life happens".

elephino wrote:

Well, I learned on this forum if you make a world championship final but don't place real high, you suck.

^ This.

But, even sucker cheaters need to be outed!

SmartRunnr wrote:

elephino wrote:

Well, I learned on this forum if you make a world championship final but don't place real high, you suck.

^ This.

But, even sucker cheaters need to be outed!

It is a shame we can't come up with another cheater...

Typical runner or sockpuppet wrote:

If you place in your age group in a race with many thousands of participants than that's a great accomplishment. Why is that so hard to figure out?

According to the results, there were around 80 participants in this age group who finished under 9 minute pace. You can call that "many thousands" though it seems a bit misleading and inconsistent with the spirit of your statement.

Need Clarification wrote:

How did she cheat? She didn't even run the race, right?

Giving her bib to someone else is one thing (let's not get started on stupid bib transfer policies). But I think this should be on the guy who ran. Why didn't he immediately DQ himself?

Read the whole thread. Apparently he ran with two bibs: his and his wife's. The intent was to get his wife a fast time so that it would bolster their training business. He didn't DQ himself because he was in on the fraud and never considered that his time would be top-3 for a 45-49 woman.

She cheated the race by getting an AG award that she did not earn, and furthermore she claimed to have greater running merits than she actually did in an attempt to sucker some suckers into paying her for coaching services.

821 in 45-49 AG

8871 total females

14514 total participants

SP wrote:

821 in 45-49 AG

8871 total females

14514 total participants

14 in the 45-49 AG who were able to finish at an 8:00 pace or faster. 80 who were able to finish at a 9:00 pace or faster. For a half marathon in ideal weather.

If finishing 3 out of 14 non-joggers is such a great accomplishment then why do they need us to go out of our way to make sure they get their $1 plastic finisher trinket? I thought they handed out awards to everyone who finishes these races anyway?

At least get it right. The other guy with him wore her bib. The husband did not wear two bibs.

Lenny Leonard wrote:

Need Clarification wrote:

How did she cheat? She didn't even run the race, right?

Giving her bib to someone else is one thing (let's not get started on stupid bib transfer policies). But I think this should be on the guy who ran. Why didn't he immediately DQ himself?

Read the whole thread. Apparently he ran with two bibs: his and his wife's. The intent was to get his wife a fast time so that it would bolster their training business. He didn't DQ himself because he was in on the fraud and never considered that his time would be top-3 for a 45-49 woman.

She cheated the race by getting an AG award that she did not earn, and furthermore she claimed to have greater running merits than she actually did in an attempt to sucker some suckers into paying her for coaching services.

There is an Age Group series and points are awarded. I have won 45-49 the last two years. The Prize is VERY NICE...valued at $1000.

What were your average times to win this prize?

SP wrote:

There is an Age Group series and points are awarded. I have won 45-49 the last two years. The Prize is VERY NICE...valued at $1000.

Quick Fact Check wrote:

Typical runner or sockpuppet wrote:

If you place in your age group in a race with many thousands of participants than that's a great accomplishment. Why is that so hard to figure out?

According to the results, there were around 80 participants in this age group who finished under 9 minute pace. You can call that "many thousands" though it seems a bit misleading and inconsistent with the spirit of your statement.

http://www.runrocknroll.com/finisher-zone/search-and-results/?resultspage=1&eventid=6&subevent_id=1&yearid=&firstname=&lastname=&bib=&gender=F&division=F%2045-49&state=&city=&perpage=100

You still seem to be judging 45 year old women by the standard of men in the 20's. If she were a 25 year old dude and only beat out 90 people who could run faster than 9 minute mile, then sure, no biggie. No harm, no foul.

But she placed in her age group in one of the most popular half-marathons in the country. That's a good accomplishment. I'm sorry that middle-aged women aren't as fast as you seem to think they should be.

SP wrote:

There is an Age Group series and points are awarded. I have won 45-49 the last two years. The Prize is VERY NICE...valued at $1000.

How much do you overpay to run in these rock n roll races?

See this is where your logic is very flawed. It may be one of the most "popular" half-marathons in the country, but it is not close to one of the most "competitive." Big difference.

My best last year at RnR was 89 mins in SD. I had 90 mins at Dallas and 91 at Seattle, LV and Philly. Yes, the AG series awards folks who have the time and money to travel. But if you win the series, you get a Tour Pass and race for free. That is about half of the $1000 prize.

Once a Destist wrote:...Weren't you the one who refused to DQ Kip Litton after it was obvious he cut the course?

Do the research, you'll easily find our position on the matter. We've been more than transparent about how that mess all ended up.

BigDuh wrote:

More races should allow transfers. That would cut out any confusion. I'm sure the change can be made with about 10 key strokes.

With the way races are now, you have to register many months in advance. Allowing people to sell their bib or give it to a friend would eliminate any fraud. I know I hate to register 6 mo out then have to watch that spot go unused if I'm injured or "life happens".

I both agree with you and don't.

On the "don't agree" side... The main race I work for used to sell out fast and for a few years we allowed transfers. It bit us in the butt and did very little to stop people from just giving their bib to other runners. "Give 'em an inch they'll take a mile". Now we sell out a lot slower, sometimes not at all. Because of that, financially it doesn't make any sense for us to offer transfers if we still have bibs available for anyone to purchase. (We're a not-for-profit, race "profits" are usually not high if at all.) We do offer deferrals, so if you enter and can't run for whatever reason you can get a reserved spot for next year at a reduced rate.

On the "agree" side... Yup, it's super easy to set up a transfer system. We did it ~10 years ago with less experience from other races to draw on. today it's a lot easier than back then.

My opinion...If you don't want to sign up for races months in advance then don't patronize races that require that to happen. There are plenty of races out there it's easy to avoid those races if you choose to. If you sign up for a race months in advance then out of respect for the effort the RDs are putting in, accept the terms the race requires.

Bad Wigins wrote:

I can't imagine a track meet where a dispute ensues over who did or did not run a 2:30 800. That's more or less what a 1:30 HM is worth, about 50% slower than the world record.

If you run a 2:30 at a track meet, nobody notices, nobody cares, nothing significant happened, go home and rethink your training. Even for a woman or an age grouper.

How do road racers get so worked up about this shit is a question preceded only by why the hell would anyone bother to cheat in the first place. Who gives a rip if your former coach ran a 1:29? Who in their right mind is impressed even if it's legit?

As multiple posters have highlighted... this is a somewhat relevant result for F45-50 category. It's 80% AG.

d2xccoach wrote:

Once a Destist wrote:...Weren't you the one who refused to DQ Kip Litton after it was obvious he cut the course?

Do the research, you'll easily find our position on the matter. We've been more than transparent about how that mess all ended up.

Yep. Litton threaten to sue and they caved is how I remember it.