Detroit Piston Richard Hamilton a 4:30 miler?

chuck d wrote:

sub 9:00 in the 3200 probably puts you at about the top 250 or so performances all-time. here's the link to the famed "distance gods" page; don't know how recently it's been updated. i imagine you can look him up on there:

http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/nats/gods.htm

243 9:02.12+ Mark Pilja Naperville North IL '98

Ok, fine, if it was granted that Hamilton, minus abilities specific to basketball, has as much or more ability as Pilja, then he could run plausibly run 4:30 in one or two tries. However; if he were passing through town, and just decided to jump into the time trial for laughs; Lance Armstrong would still own him, because he posted sub 16 times in the 5k in HS before building a massive aerobic base in cycling. Yet, would Hamilton then work to avenge his loss in a rematch by out training Armstrong with "secret workouts" entailing actual distance work? The world may never know.

It is amazing how fast some of you guys are on a message board. Maybe we need a "message board" olympics. Start training those fingers.

This is what Rip Hamiton said in runners world.com.

I don't know who goes outside for a 1 mile run, or who sprints for 3 straite miles, but if he is out there running fast everyday, he is doing the work necessary to be able to show up and run a fast mile.

It says that he ran in high school and hardly ever lost, but it neglects to mention a particular time on a particular date.

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,5033,s6-197-0-0-7471,00.html

by: Charles Butler

Why do you run?

The reason why I run is that it makes everything easy for me, especially on the basketball court. I believe if I can condition myself without a basketball, then when I actually get out there on the court it is actually fun.

What type of runner are you?

I'm the type of runner that runs to exhaustion. If it's my normal workout day with basketball drills, what I'll do is wake up in the morning and I'll run a mile. When I run that mile I will actually sprint it. I don't go out there and just walk a little bit of it or jog a little bit of it. I get out there and it's an all-out sprint. I'm the type of person who believes the faster I get my heart rate up, the more I get out of a run. On the days I don't have a basketball workout, I might run two or three miles as a sprint.

Do you enjoy runnig?

Do I enjoy running? Yeah, I enjoy it. If you came to my house and said, "Ok, let's go out and run," I would enjoy it. But it's also part of my job. I got to do it. If I don't do it, then I'm slacking on the job

How did you get into running in the first place?

My basketball coach in Coatsville, Pa., who coached me in 8th and 9th grades, made us run a lot. He used to take us out every morning and have us run hills in our neighborhood. Once I started doing that, it made me better on the basketball court, because I was never tired.

Did you ever run high school cross-country or track?

Well, I signed up for track, but the coach always told me, "Rip [Hamilton's nickname], you don't even have to come to the practices. Just show up for the meet." So what I would do is play basketball, then go to the meet, run the mile and then go home. And I never lost...until this one meet. I was racing the mile. I assumed it was my last lap because my whole team and coach kept saying, "Rip sprint." So I smoked this kid from another school. But when I got to the end, the referee said, "Son, you got one more lap to go." The only thing I remember was this kid just floating by me and I had no more gas in the engine. It was the first time I lost in my life. I was so mad at my team and my coach. My coach said, "Rip, I'm not going to say anything to you for the rest of the season. I'm just going to let you run and let you be you."

Did you ever think of doing any serious running?

Not really. I just always looked at running as a way to take care of my body. By running, it would make the game of basketball a lot easier for me because I am always in shape.

Are you unusual among nba players because of all the running you do?

Am I unusual? I think so. With any sport sometimes it's hard to get out and run by yourself. You know, everybody dreads that. A lot of times people want to be out there with a basketball or a football or whatever it is, but to actually go out and run, I think that is tough. So a lot of times when I go out and run I actually take my dogs--I got two pit bulls--and my dogs have a lot of energy. They just like to run around the house. So what I will do is take them outside on a leash and I will just run. And they'll take off too--you know a dog can run all day. And I'll keep running and running and running until they stop, and then I know I've done enough running.

Do you run with music?

No, I just run with my dogs.

Do you have a favorite pair of running shoes?

I wear anything. I could wear basketball sneakers.

Last year when you won the NBA title, how do you think your conditioning helped with the win?

I think it helped a lot by the simple fact that I was able to still play at a high level so late in the season. A lot of guys get fatigued and get tired and kind of hit a wall. With all the running I did, it kept me playing at that high level. Instead of getting slower, I got faster.

Is a marathon in your future?

Probably. When I'm done playing basketball.

Who do you run with?

Lots of times I can't find anybody to run with; it's tough for others to keep up with me. I'll stay will them early but when I feel I'm not getting anything out of it, I'll go ahead and tell them to meet me at the supermarket.

During the offseason how much did you run?

Every day. Five days a week. I take the weekends off. I'll run at least a mile a day. If I work out on the basketball court I won't go that long. But if I don't work on the basketball court, I'll go 3 or so miles.

Do people ever notice you when you run?

Yes. One time I was running and these people cut right in front of me with their car. They got out and said, "Oh, my! There's Rip." I had my dogs with me and they were barking, and I said, "Folks, hold on. These dogs are no laughy-daffy lick-you dogs." These people were like, "It's okay." So I signed my autograph, even though they messed up my run.

Are any of your teammates big runners like you?

Nobody wants to run. Everybody on the Pistons always tell me, "Man, you run too much. Slow down. Stop."

"Second of all, if you didn't run a 4:30 mile in high school find a new sport, cause your not good..."

I guess Bill Rodgers should find a new sport cause his HS best was barely 4:30, if that. Lots of great marathoners ran sub par HS times but went on to run great marathons. There's a list somewhere that shows runners who didn't do much in HS but went on to greater success. One didn' break 10:00 in the two mile but went on to good marathon success. Face it. HS times don't matter.

Rip went to my high school, he came out for track for like a week but never raced anyone in the mile, and definately didnt beat people like he was talking about, maybe he did in middle school but not in high school, but I know he does indeed run alot and is very fit for a basketball player, even in high school Coatesville was a serious basketball team, best high school game ever, Rip and Coatesville vs. Bryant and Lower Merion during the district final.

As a 4:30 miler in high school, I take offense with someone saying "i can run a mile in under 5 minutes. Probably like 4:30." You can't just put your mouth on those times without actually running them. Sure 4:30 isn't all that fast, but for those of us who wern't blessed with natural ability, a lot of work went into running a 4:30. I trained 50-60 miles a week, with 2 or 3 speed sessions/ week plus lifting. I don't doubt that he is a well conditioned athlete, but you can't just throw around 4:30 like its a nothing time.

"you can't just..." sure he can. people on here really need to learn to disassociate their feelings from this sort of thing. you're acting like someone just slapped your mom around or something. you take "offense" to someone saying this? like it's an attack on your personal dignity? christ, what do you feel when someone actually insults you?

I ran a 4:28 in HS and I can almost dunk a volleyball. I say he could do it...

Guy wrote:

I doubt Richard Hamilton could run 4:30 for the mile, or even 5. The only people who say he could like to throw around random numbers, usually just above their own PBs, as being within the reach of everyone. Watch, I'll do it right now: everyone can walk up off the street and run 4:50 for 1500 m. It takes no special training or effort.

Um, what?

I found the following article helpful because it contains information from an actual coach who took actual times for an actual distance for actual players"

http://www.fundamentalsoccer.com/members/PHILLIPS2.html

Performance Conditioning for Soccer"

(Part 2)

by Tom Phillips

Since 1998 the San Francisco Bay Seals have been in the A-League. Three of our 1997 key players, Tim Weaver, C.J. Brown, and White, are playing for MLS, and Troya Cowell spent two seasons in the Belgian 1st division. Brown has become a regular with the U.S. National team, playing well in the recent wins over Argentina and Germany. Brown, Weaver, and White all came up through CYSA-N. The 1997 season was a defining period for me. I am confident that I have a formula, if not necessarily the formula for preparing elite soccer players physically for national level competition.

Here are a few important lessons learned from my experience.

1. There needs to be more data disseminated on physical testing of elite male players. The article in the May/June 1996 Soccer Journal was just what coaches of female players needed. To improve the game at the national team level, coaches of feeder teams must know what is expected physically to play at the next level. I propose a national debate on this issue, followed by dissemination of information as part of the program to win a future World Cup.

2. At least some of your players must be selected for their aerobic capacity. Someone on your team must be able to do the running to disrupt your opponent's attacks and support yours; in other words, two way players. The '97 Seals had several. The more players that are chosen for technical considerations who can't do the running, the harder those who can must work, and the fitter they must be. The players who will be designated to do the lion's share of the running must be aerobic animals. The ability to get aerobically fit at a high level is a talent, just as is the ability to acquire motor skills. The way in which you decide if a player has this talent is open to question, but I have found that if a player comes to you in shape he should be able to run 1 1/2 miles in 8:20. Someone with the proper gene combinations and specific training will run 8:00, and after an intensive protocol, I had one player run under 7:30. This is the pace at which a good high school distance runner will run 2 miles, so we are not talking about finding world class distance runners and teaching them soccer. We ran the 1 1/2 mile test as six laps around a high school track. We try to get all players, including goalkeepers, to run at the same time as a team building exercise.

The 300 yard shuttle can have a high degree of variability due to its short time and differing surface traction in varied locations. You should pick a place where conditions will change as little as possible. On grass with cleats all the '97 Seals starters ran the 300 under 58 seconds. Many were under 56 seconds. Under 55 seconds was rarefied air, and Marquise White ran 53.1.

My completely biased conclusion is that impact players, the players that win games, will do well if not superior in the 300 shuttle. A player that can dominate his marker by leaving him in the dust on a breakaway, or dragging him on so many sprints that the marker makes technical mistakes, is tough to find. My advice is that you sign every player you find who scores well on the 300 shuttle. Your technical coach can teach him to play, but your ability to improve anaerobic power is very limited. The players who do the work and give up the glory to the impact players will do well in the 1 1/2 mile. These guys are the heart of your team. They never quit, and they don't have off days. When you find a player who scores well on both tests, you have a nugget. Cowell ran the 300 shuttle under 55 seconds, and the 1 1/2 mile close to 8 minutes flat. He was the playmaker on attack, was always there on defense, and his game did not break down when we played the big games.

3. Conditioning off the ball has advantages that are only appreciated by the conditioning coach. Everyone else wants conditioning with the ball. Here are those advantages: In a highly structured track workout you can manipulate the training variables exactly. Intensity, work/rest time intervals, volume, (distance run) are all controlled in this environment. This is where I believe that the specificity principle is on my side. There are certain principles of conditioning that have been proved in scientifically-based studies to produce specific adaptations. If you are serious about knowing this field, you must take a class in exercise physiology, and these factors will become known to you in detail. My workouts are true to these principles. In many of the conditioning drills with a ball that I have tried, there are other factors confusing the important aspects of a workout. In particular, intensity is difficult to monitor and maintain. Players not maintaining your pace in a track-style workout are easy to spot. Intensity is the most critical aspect of your workout plan. If the intensity is not adequate for your purpose, you have accomplished little with your time.

My workouts fall into three classifications. Long slow distance workouts are particularly good for pre-season with de-conditioned players. This involves continuous running at 70-80% of maximum heart rate. Start with 30 minutes and try to get to 90 minutes before the season starts. Anaerobic threshold, (AT), workouts are as tough mentally as they are physically. The object is to run at a pace that is over the threshold of anaerobic metabolism. This will be above 80% of maximum heart rate. Players will notice heaviness in the legs, slight dizziness, and a loss of coordination. Expect that most players will run too fast the first few times they run this workout, and have to slow down or stop. Start with 10 minutes, longer as fitness improves. This is a good workout to gauge the commitment of a player. A result of doing this workout once per week will be an increased tolerance of the discomfort of repeated sprints with little rest.

Interval training can be used to train aerobic or sprint endurance. Run your players from 10-880 yard intervals with a rest period between each. Rest period length and intensity will determine if you are training short term or long term endurance. For sprint endurance use a 2 or 3/1 rest/work ratio and a heart rate of 180-190, (> 90% of maximum). For long term endurance use 1/1 and a heart rate of 160-170, (80% of max)."

This article pretty much speaks for itself, but in summary, a serious soccer coach timed numerous elite players over 1 1/2 miles on a track, and even after they had done some serious running training, only one of them was able to break 7:30 (5:00 pace).

Out of curiosity, I tried to find some results for the 1/2 mile run on some of those old ABC Superstars competitions. I was only able to find one year where times were posted (another year had the winning time: Renaldo Nehemiah in 2:12 or 2:13).

1984 Superstars 1/2 mile run:

1. Greg Foster 2:18.04

2. Ray Mancini 2:19.3e

3. Billy Olson 2:31.6e

4. Marcus Allen 2:31.8e

5. Cliff Branch 2:34.2e

6. Storm Davis 2:35.4e

Granted this isn't much to to on, but it could be summarized by saying the times were not stunning, nobody showed any likelihood of being able to run a 4:30 mile, and the athletes who ran the best were track and field athletes (and one boxer). Marcus Allen and Cliff Branch, who would seem to fit the profile of speedy, talented all-around athletes that some posters attribute to NBA players, performed dismally.

Interestingly, in this particular Superstars competitions, T & F athletes went 1-2-3: Tom Petranoff (javelin) won overall, followed by Greg Foster (hurdles), and Billy Olson (pole vault).

In conclusion, I find no evidence that NBA ballplayers, or other pro athletes, are capable of running 4:30 for the mile just because they're so freaking talented (or 4:16, in Allen Iverson's case). I think many of us are brought up being told over and over that American athletes are basically superheroes, and many of us believe it. I find it interesting that an all-star collection of our superheroes couldn't even beat Puerto Rico in basketball. Puerto Rico's basketball players must all be sub-4 guys. Seriously, I'm sure some of these guys could be good distance runners if they trained for it (and most of them would suck), but I don't think they are capable of good times based on just the training they do for their sport.

Now, the Detroit Free Press is quoting the Runner's World article:

www.freep.com/sports/pistons/line29e_20041229.htm

I e-mailed the reporter and told him I'd give $500 to Rip's favorite charity if he runs a 4:30 on a track.

Here's his reply:

MIKE: I guess you'll need to contact the Pistons to try to take him up on the bet. Can he do a 4:30? That would be tough, naturally. He's a heck of an athlete and his training style puts 99.9 percent of NBA players to shame. So it's possible ... but I certainly have my doubts, too.

Gene Myers

Sports Editor

Detroit Free Press

"Michigan's Most-Read Newspaper"

600 W. Fort Street

Detroit, Mich. 48226

Phone: 313-222-6736

Cell: 313-550-5288

Fax: 313-222-5983

E-mail:

myers@freepress.com

That soccer article sounds realistic. I bet a lot of pro athletes could run about 5:30 for a mile, but not much better without some training. Most of them are too lazy.

If a short fat 42 year old with a reconstructed right knee, torn acl on the left, surgery on both ankles, permanently fractured l-5 back vertabrae and a generally bad attitude and disposition can run a 4:30 mile then I bet a Thoroughbred like hamilton probably could run 4:30.

Hey, one of your posters had the idea to send the address to this thread to the Detroit Free Press, which goes to millions accross the state. Here is the online article:

http://www.freep.com/sports/pistons/list30e_20041230.htm

I wonder if Richard Hamilton knows about the gigantic ruckus he created. I wonder if he cares.

I think on all-star weekend, they should make the fittest basketball players run the mile instead of shooting 3 pointers or instead of teaming up with the WNBA players and shooting layups.

He doesn't care. He makes nearly $9MM a year. If he ran a 3:30 mile the people on this board would complain that $9MM is too much money for anyone to make. Meb and Deena got $92,000 last year from Running USA. My god.

He also gets NBA groupies.

pistons!!! wrote:

Hey, one of your posters had the idea to send the address to this thread to the Detroit Free Press, which goes to millions accross the state. Here is the online article:

http://www.freep.com/sports/pistons/list30e_20041230.htm

Ha-ha...that's great! As I said earlier, he might be able to do it w/sufficient training but he never will.

All you all are some HATERS!!!!!! HATERS!!!!!! HATERS!!!! HATERS!!!! I can't believe a bunch of grown men would even stoop soo low because you can't run like Rip does. You guy make me sick!!! Get over it....I is possible to run a mile in 4:30 sec. Your just mad because you can't do it!!!